Living without a car, and mixed use developments. (Seattle, Tacoma: house, neighborhood)

[GreenLivingDave]

Originally Posted by SitoUK

I've been in Seattle since October and do not have a car. If you live in an area that easily walkable, such as Capitol Hill, this is definitely doable. All your daily needs in terms of supermarkets, restaurant and nightlife are catered for in the area and you can easily walk everywhere. There are lots of buses to downtown and you can easily walk there as well if you prefer.

It gets more difficult if you go to places further afield. You usually have to change buses in downtown and the schedules don't appear to be very well synchronized, so often you have to wait when changing buses and a relatively short trip in terms of distance can take quite a while.

One of Seattle's great attractions is the outdoors and it's quite difficult to get there without a car. I am using zip car for outdoor trips and to go to places like IKEA or the Outlet malls. This works really well but of course costs money as well...less than owning a car though.

Thanks. I like the idea of Zip cars that is something that is a must wherever I move. I actually like cars and driving, but I want to greatly reduce my carbon footprint and live in a place where I can do most of my daily things without a car. Right now I live in FL sprawl, not out in the country, in the burbs, yet it is five miles to the nearest grocery store, let alone most anything else. There is nothing walkable about this area. The other day I saw a mother walking a handicapped child, they where walking in the street, not safe for anyone!

[GreenLivingDave]

Originally Posted by AlohaHuey

I would disagree. maybe their light rail is better, but Metro goes just about anywhere up and down the city corridor. Couple that with the Sounder trains, the basic light rail..."decades ahead" is quite an exaggeration.

Decades ahead of Detroit, maybe.

What about street cars? I thought I saw a reference to them in Seattle the other day. I'll have to Google that.

[GreenLivingDave]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

You want Portland. Seriously. I'm not necessarily recommending it just because of the light rail or the mixed use buildings (though PDX has more of what you're looking for in that regard), but more because judging from what I've seen in your post so far, your likely other wants/desires/personality traits fall more into line with that city than they do Seattle.

I see a lot I like in both cities, no place is perfect, but it does seem Portland is out ahead on transportation at least. I like university towns while Portland does have PSU Seattle seems to be much more of a university town to me. On the other hand Portland with Pioneer Square, the park blocks, etc. does seem to have better public space in it's core. While Seattle does not have a Powell's book store, it looks like the public library rocks! I'd say overall Seattle has better architecture, Portlands skyline is a bit blah but it works well up close, especially with the nice public spaces.

One thing that made me think more of Seattle is hey fever. Right now I am sneezing, runny nose, etc. like I haven't in many years (I have a cold now not hey fever) it reminded me that I was like that about one third of the year in Eugene and would likely be close to that in Portland. (because of all the grass production in the Willamette Valley plus what comes from the Columbia Gorge) But I know of people who have had that issue in Portland, but not in Seattle.

I could be at my worst symptoms in Eugene, get up in the Cascade Mountains and it would clear up. I feel like Seattle is more like the mountains plus having the sound and big lakes, than it is the Willamette Valley or the Columbia Gorge

[GreenLivingDave]

Originally Posted by GreenLivingDave

What about street cars? I thought I saw a reference to them in Seattle the other day. I'll have to Google that.

Well, it looks like the Street car system is also very limited at this time. It's unfortunate that the monorail wasn't developed much further as originally planned.

I also like the idea of "personal rapid transit" systems, it looks like they can be less costly than light rail or even buses and street cars, and also more efficient as you can program what station you want it to go to. Bypassing any station stops between you and your destination, NICE!

I believe Microsoft is looking at putting such a system on their campus, maybe something like that would be better for the region as well vs. other public transit.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by GreenLivingDave

What about street cars? I thought I saw a reference to them in Seattle the other day. I'll have to Google that.

There used to be one along the waterfront but I believe it's not operational now.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by GreenLivingDave

Well, it looks like the Street car system is also very limited at this time. It's unfortunate that the monorail wasn't developed much further as originally planned.

I also like the idea of "personal rapid transit" systems, it looks like they can be less costly than light rail or even buses and street cars, and also more efficient as you can program what station you want it to go to. Bypassing any station stops between you and your destination, NICE!

I believe Microsoft is looking at putting such a system on their campus, maybe something like that would be better for the region as well vs. other public transit.

A lot of people bicycle to work. I used to pedal in daily from Fremont to downtown.

[AlohaHuey]

Originally Posted by GreenLivingDave

That has far more to do with the architect and their design ability than the type of development. That said, I personally find single story retail strip mall developments, to be uniformly ugly and offensive. They are a total waste, and misuse of land and community resources.

Agree there. I like the older buildings myself. Strip malls are mainly an east side (across the lake) development; you won't see much of that in the city itself.

[benleis]

Rail Lines != the totality of public transit. We've always had a relatively excellent bus system. If you're going car free that's what you'll probably end up using to get outside your own neighborhood. What's interesting if you look into the stats is that Portland has a much lower % use of public transit despite the more developed MAX lines.

Also illuminating is the stats for % without cars:

1.New York – 55.7%
2.Newark – 44.17%
3.Washington, DC – 36.93%
4.Baltimore – 35.89%
5.Philadelphia – 35.73%
6.Boston – 34.91%
7.Buffalo – 31.42%
8.Pittsburgh – 29.44%
9.Chicago – 28.85%
10.San Francisco – 28.56%
...
25.Seattle – 16.32%
..
28. Portland 14.02%

http://www.bikesatwork.com/carfree/c...25&first_row=0

This all correlates with the fact that Seattle is relatively denser as well.

Ben

[eskercurve]

I wonder about the accuracy of the nearly 1/3 statistic of those in Chicago without a car. It is VERY car dependent, IMHO, except for the central core downtown and some neighborhoods on the North Side. Everyone I knew had / has a car, and sometimes two.

Anyway, seriously, you want portland.

I know there's pro's and con's to both cities... but you can't have your cake and eat it too in life in this regard unless you move to Japan or some cities in China, or live smartly in London or a few other Western European cities.

[DarkWolf]

If you live in Northeastern Megapolis then you won't need a car to go anywhere..... Buses , Regional Rail , Intercity Rail , Urban Rail and Smart Highways make living in this region easy. You can live cheaply in a Satilite city and commute into a more expensive city like NY or DC. There are a plans for an addition 18,000+ miles of Regional Rail to be built over the next 20-30 years connect all the Northeastern Cities and larger towns.... As for the Northwest , Seattle has great bus system form what i'm told by my Cousins so you could live off of that aswell. The Rail is small for now but should grow slowly , probably over Portland in usage later this decade.... Have you looked in Vancouver or Calgary , those cities have great Transit and Green living....