08-23-2011, 09:47 AM
Location: Flagstaff AZ
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Hello everyone,
As the title indicates our family is moving to the Seattle area by the end of the year. We came to visit in April and knew very quickly that we found 'home'.
I have been quietly reading threads about the area for a while now and am very thankful for the information. There are some things that still confuse me and hope to get some clarification.
First, we have children who will start school in the near future and naturally we are looking at school districts as well. We know where the 'good' and the 'bad' ones are. But what makes up a bad school district? I have a few websites I found helpful and some of these 'bad' school districts have very good school ratings. So why is it bad? Is it because those towns and suburbs are not as glamorous? I am mostly speaking of Renton, Burien and Des Moines.
Second, when we came to visit I had my city-data info in hand and we made it a point to go to all the areas we are interested in. Since I was looking for a euro-type lifestyle I was very happy to have found something very close to that. We have lived in Texas and Arizona - do I need to say more? Now, my question. None of the areas we visited were bad or run down. We went to all the high-end neighborhoods and also the 'less desirable' ones. Why is it that the south end of Seattle has a bad reputation? I couldn't find a lot of bad things and believe me I was looking for it. We would love to find a house and neighborhood that is walkable and has a few shops. However, we are not the family who runs up credit cards to impress the neighbors with our new project.
We liked Ballard a lot but I don't want to scratch off towns like Burien because of a reputation that might not be justified.
I'd love to get some feedback from you. Since I am German I can handle brutal honesty as long as it is truthful and not opinionated.
Thanks so much
08-23-2011, 10:27 AM
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Most people reading this are going to disagree with me here, but the reason the south end of Seattle( and those towns south of Seattle) has a bad reputation is because the areas are more ethnically and economically mixed. In other words, people dismiss these areas because there are poor people and black people around.
The crime rates aren't bad in those places. Ballard has a much higher crime rate than Burien. But there are small parts of Renton, Burien, and Des Moines that are run down. If you're familiar with slums in places like New York, Chicago, Los Angeles,Houston, Philadelphia, etc, Seattle's "run down" areas seem like nice middle class places. But if 5% of an area is run down, the entire area is dismissed as "ghetto" because someone drove through there and saw a black person, or heard something on the news, or who knows?
About schools and school districts:
Some people look at test scores, and decide that's what makes a school or school district good. That has a little bit of merit. The test results show what percentage of the kids in a particular grade passed it. It might show that in 4th grade, 90% of the kids on Mercer Island passed. It might show that in Burien ( Highline school district), only 25% passed. What this means is that in some schools in the Highline district, classroom time is devoted to the majority of the student's needs, and since many are below average, the above average students aren't given as much opportunity as in a place like Mercer Island.
That's where more information is necessary. Not all the schools in a school district are the same. I might try to avoid a school where only 25% of the kids pass the assessment tests, because they are going to be catering to the lowest common denominator, but what if there were other schools in that same district where 75% of the students passed? Should you avoid that town entirely because it has some terrible schools, and some pretty good ones? What if the pretty good school is loved by parents and students and has a lot of community and parent involvement?
I'm not sure that there are any pretty good schools in the Tukwila district, but Renton, and Kent, Des Moines, and Burien all have some good schools. They also have bad schools.
08-23-2011, 01:24 PM
Location: Flagstaff AZ
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Thank you for the helpful info. It kind of makes sense that 'bad' areas are labeled as such because of the diversity. When we visited we tried to talk to as many locals as we possibly could to get as much insight as we could. A couple of times people referred us to the 'vanilla' neighborhoods. It took us a minute to figure out what was meant by 'vanilla'. I had never heard that term.
08-23-2011, 08:17 PM
Location: Greater Seattle, WA Metro Area
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One other thing to consider on schooling is that increasingly donations to PTSA's and levy campaigns (special votes in a school district for funding) are needed to support even basic needs in a school district as federal and state cuts to education dominate the educational environment. We stretched our budget to afford the Issaquah School District and are thankful we did. Even in a down economy the levy votes passed. From what I see in the local PTSA's the parents are willing to step up to raise money in many different creative ways to fund basics like art and science. That would be something I'd look for in a school district. There are many two income families in Issaquah and I am always amazed at the full time working parents who step up to help out or even the part time or stay at home parents that are able to volunteer (and do) like it's a full time job. It does take a village and I'd make sure the village I chose was committed to education.
You might also check out crime statistics in the areas you are looking at...
Crime Statistics
08-23-2011, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
slimlilly
Thank you for the helpful info. It kind of makes sense that 'bad' areas are labeled as such because of the diversity. When we visited we tried to talk to as many locals as we possibly could to get as much insight as we could. A couple of times people referred us to the 'vanilla' neighborhoods. It took us a minute to figure out what was meant by 'vanilla'. I had never heard that term.
I duno if diversity itself makes an area bad. Much of the east side and Bellevue has a high population of Asians. And the school districts there are stellar.
I think the reason areas south of Seattle have such a bad rap is the fact that it tends to be lower income. Places like South Seattle, Renton, Des Moines, and Burien are simply not as nice.
08-23-2011, 09:20 PM
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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The well educated professionals in this area are very concerned about their kid's education. Look at the success of private schools such as Eastside Catholic which built a new campus in Sammamish, and charges close to $20,000 a year tuition. Bellevue, Mercer Island, and to a certain extent Issaquah and Lake WA schools are better because of the amount of
parental involvement and cash they give the schools. The areas the OP is considering are more diverse economically as well as ethnically.
That also means diversity in the importance of education, and whether to help their local schools. A few carry all the weight but it's too much of a burden and eventually the parents of better students move to areas with better schools.
The eastside is actually very diverse with many residents from India and Asia, and lately Europeans coming to work for Microsoft. For them education is a high priority and they are doing well economically and are almost all willing to make sacrifices to help their schools educate their kids better.
08-23-2011, 09:58 PM
Location: Capital Hill
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There really isn't very much wrong with Burien. It would be classified as 'blue collar'. Which means they are ordenary working class people, -not snobs. Many people who work at Boeing or the Seatac Airport live in this area. There are some very nice surrounding areas of Burien, like Normandy Park, Des Moines, Three Tree Pt., and Sea View. You can get very beautiful Westward views of the Sound and the Olympic Mts. The is also absolutely nothing wrong with the Highland Public Schools in that area. It's also quite woodsy. Just don't buy a home too close to the airport, or White Center, is all. Edmonds to the North is also excellent. Now, if you want 'German', move to Levenworth, WA. They made that town a chique little 'German' village just over the pass. But, you may get the impression it's 'phony', just for the tourists, which it is, but it's a fun place to go anyway, specially for their October Fest.
Someone metioned 'The German Heratige Society' on First Hill. It's been there for many years. My son-in-law's mother sings in their music group. They should be very helpful.
moderator interpose: to all participants in this thread-- please remember that our rules state that posts have to be in English only. If you'd like to have a discussion or would like to give suggestions to the OP in German, please use a Direct Message. Thanks.
Last edited by scirocco22; 08-24-2011 at 12:08 AM ..
08-24-2011, 09:07 AM
Location: Flagstaff AZ
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Thank you for all of your replies. They are very helpful and we do take every suggestion serious. I do feel nervous and don't want to make the wrong decision. I guess we have a lot of work to do.
Thank you also for the German link. I've already made contact with another German group which is very exciting.
03-14-2023, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by
slimlilly
what makes up a bad school district? I have a few websites I found helpful and some of these 'bad' school districts have very good school ratings. So why is it bad?
You've had some good answers. Another thing to consider is the community. I've been in many different neighborhoods during my decades in the Seattle area. There are some communities that have a very high tolerance for crime and disruptive behaviour. The kids are distruptive and disrespectful. You don't want to live in those areas. I haven't done a deep dive into the various neighborhoods in South Seattle, but look at the retail stores - do they look like they are protecting themselves from thieves? Do the residents throw their trash on the ground? Are the lawns well-maintained? Is there graffiti around?
My nephew complained loudly about gangs in his Federal Way school.
I moved from Seattle to Bellevue after my daughter's Grade One experience - the teachers were mean, the kids were rude and disruptive.
In Bellevue, the PTSA meetings were mostly moms organizing phone trees and working on fund-raising activities. I attended only one meeting in Seattle, whcih was nothing but parents literally screaming at the people at the font of the room who were stoically waiting for the meeting to end so they could leave.
The schools are a reflection of the community. When I lived in the Central Area, I could not believe the noise and disruption in the middle of the night. I even had someone knock on my door at 1 in the morning, asking for a hand-out! There is no way that kind of behaviour would be tolerated in most of Seattle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
slimlilly
Why is it that the south end of Seattle has a bad reputation? ... I don't want to scratch off towns like Burien because of a reputation that might not be justified.
Get out and walk around. Walk into the businesses, visit the Library. Do you feel welcomed? Go to the grocery stores. There is a HUGE difference in groceries in the different neighborhoods. If you like organic, wholesome food, you don't want to have to drive for forty minutes to get to a store that carries what you want.
03-14-2023, 01:21 PM
Location: Seattle
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This thread is from 2011. The OP's kids are probably in college by now.
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Most Common Occupations - Healthcare support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Protective service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Fire fighting and prevention, and other protective service workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Law enforcement workers including supervisors (%)
Most Common Occupations - Food preparation and serving related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Building and grounds cleaning and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Personal care and service occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and office occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Sales and related occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Office and administrative support occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Natural resources, construction, and maintenance occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Farming, fishing, and forestry occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Construction and extraction occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Installation, maintenance, and repair occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production, transportation, and material moving occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Production occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Transportation occupations (%)
Most Common Occupations - Material moving occupations (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - Correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Federal prisons and detention centers (%)
People in Group quarters - Halfway houses (%)
People in Group quarters - Local jails and other confinement facilities (including police lockups) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military disciplinary barracks (%)
People in Group quarters - State prisons (%)
People in Group quarters - Other types of correctional institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Nursing homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards, hospices, and schools for the handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals/wards and hospices for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospices or homes for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Military hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Other hospitals or wards for chronically ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Hospitals or wards for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Mental (Psychiatric) hospitals or wards (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Schools, hospitals, or wards for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the deaf (%)
People in Group quarters - Institutions for the blind (%)
People in Group quarters - Orthopedic wards and institutions for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in general hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Wards in military hospitals for patients who have no usual home elsewhere (%)
People in Group quarters - Juvenile institutions (%)
People in Group quarters - Long-term care (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for abused, dependent, and neglected children (%)
People in Group quarters - Residential treatment centers for emotionally disturbed children (%)
People in Group quarters - Training schools for juvenile delinquents (%)
People in Group quarters - Short-term care, detention or diagnostic centers for delinquent children (%)
People in Group quarters - Type of juvenile institution unknown (%)
People in Group quarters - Noninstitutionalized population (%)
People in Group quarters - College dormitories (includes college quarters off campus) (%)
People in Group quarters - Military quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - On base (%)
People in Group quarters - Barracks, unaccompanied personnel housing (UPH), (Enlisted/Officer), ;and similar group living quarters for military personnel (%)
People in Group quarters - Transient quarters for temporary residents (%)
People in Group quarters - Military ships (%)
People in Group quarters - Group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes or halfway houses for drug/alcohol abuse (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally ill (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the mentally retarded (%)
People in Group quarters - Homes for the physically handicapped (%)
People in Group quarters - Other group homes (%)
People in Group quarters - Religious group quarters (%)
People in Group quarters - Dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Agriculture workers' dormitories on farms (%)
People in Group quarters - Job Corps and vocational training facilities (%)
People in Group quarters - Other workers' dormitories (%)
People in Group quarters - Crews of maritime vessels (%)
People in Group quarters - Other nonhousehold living situations (%)
People in Group quarters - Other noninstitutional group quarters (%)
Residents speaking English at home (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking English at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking Spanish at home - Foreign born (%)
Residents speaking other language at home (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Born in the United States (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Native, born elsewhere (%)
Residents speaking other language at home - Foreign born (%)
Class of Workers - Employee of private company (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed in own incorporated business (%)
Class of Workers - Private not-for-profit wage and salary workers (%)
Class of Workers - Local government workers (%)
Class of Workers - State government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Federal government workers (%)
Class of Workers - Self-employed workers in own not incorporated business and Unpaid family workers (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in houses and condos - No fuel used (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Utility gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Bottled, tank, or LP gas (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Electricity (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Fuel oil, kerosene, etc. (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Coal or coke (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Wood (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Solar energy (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - Other fuel (%)
House heating fuel used in apartments - No fuel used (%)
Armed forces status - In Armed Forces (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Veteran (%)
Armed forces status - Civilian - Nonveteran (%)
Fatal accidents locations in years 2005-2021
Fatal accidents locations in 2005
Fatal accidents locations in 2006
Fatal accidents locations in 2007
Fatal accidents locations in 2008
Fatal accidents locations in 2009
Fatal accidents locations in 2010
Fatal accidents locations in 2011
Fatal accidents locations in 2012
Fatal accidents locations in 2013
Fatal accidents locations in 2014
Fatal accidents locations in 2015
Fatal accidents locations in 2016
Fatal accidents locations in 2017
Fatal accidents locations in 2018
Fatal accidents locations in 2019
Fatal accidents locations in 2020
Fatal accidents locations in 2021
Alcohol use - People drinking some alcohol every month (%)
Alcohol use - People not drinking at all (%)
Alcohol use - Average days/month drinking alcohol
Alcohol use - Average drinks/week
Alcohol use - Average days/year people drink much
Audiometry - Average condition of hearing (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear a whisper from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - People that can hear normal voice from across a quiet room (%)
Audiometry - Ears ringing, roaring, buzzing (%)
Audiometry - Had a job exposure to loud noise (%)
Audiometry - Had off-work exposure to loud noise (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high blood pressure (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Checking blood pressure at home (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Frequently checking blood cholesterol (%)
Blood Pressure & Cholesterol - Has high cholesterol level (%)
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at supermarket/grocery store
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on food at other stores
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on eating out
Consumer Behavior - Money monthly spent on carryout/delivered foods
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at supermarket/grocery store (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on food at other stores (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on eating out (%)
Consumer Behavior - Income spent on carryout/delivered foods (%)
Current Health Status - General health condition (%)
Current Health Status - Blood donors (%)
Current Health Status - Has blood ever tested for HIV virus (%)
Current Health Status - Left-handed people (%)
Dermatology - People using sunscreen (%)
Diabetes - Diabetics (%)
Diabetes - Had a blood test for high blood sugar (%)
Diabetes - People taking insulin (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Diet health (%)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Milk product consumption (# of products/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals not home prepared (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Meals from fast food or pizza place (#/week)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Ready-to-eat foods (#/month)
Diet Behavior & Nutrition - Frozen meals/pizza (#/month)
Drug Use - People that ever used marijuana or hashish (%)
Drug Use - Ever used hard drugs (%)
Drug Use - Ever used any form of cocaine (%)
Drug Use - Ever used heroin (%)
Drug Use - Ever used methamphetamine (%)
Health Insurance - People covered by health insurance (%)
Kidney Conditions-Urology - Avg. # of times urinating at night
Medical Conditions - People with asthma (%)
Medical Conditions - People with anemia (%)
Medical Conditions - People with psoriasis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with overweight (%)
Medical Conditions - Elderly people having difficulties in thinking or remembering (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever received blood transfusion (%)
Medical Conditions - People having trouble seeing even with glass/contacts (%)
Medical Conditions - People with arthritis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with gout (%)
Medical Conditions - People with congestive heart failure (%)
Medical Conditions - People with coronary heart disease (%)
Medical Conditions - People with angina pectoris (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had heart attack (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had stroke (%)
Medical Conditions - People with emphysema (%)
Medical Conditions - People with thyroid problem (%)
Medical Conditions - People with chronic bronchitis (%)
Medical Conditions - People with any liver condition (%)
Medical Conditions - People who ever had cancer or malignancy (%)
Mental Health - People who have little interest in doing things (%)
Mental Health - People feeling down, depressed, or hopeless (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble sleeping or sleeping too much (%)
Mental Health - People feeling tired or having little energy (%)
Mental Health - People with poor appetite or overeating (%)
Mental Health - People feeling bad about themself (%)
Mental Health - People who have trouble concentrating on things (%)
Mental Health - People moving or speaking slowly or too fast (%)
Mental Health - People having thoughts they would be better off dead (%)
Oral Health - Average years since last visit a dentist
Oral Health - People embarrassed because of mouth (%)
Oral Health - People with gum disease (%)
Oral Health - General health of teeth and gums (%)
Oral Health - Average days a week using dental floss/device
Oral Health - Average days a week using mouthwash for dental problem
Oral Health - Average number of teeth
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to control insects (%)
Pesticide Use - Households using pesticides to kill weeds (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity work activities (%)
Physical Activity - People walking or bicycling (%)
Physical Activity - People doing vigorous-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - People doing moderate-intensity recreational activities (%)
Physical Activity - Average hours a day doing sedentary activities
Physical Activity - Average hours a day watching TV or videos
Physical Activity - Average hours a day using computer
Physical Functioning - People having limitations keeping them from working (%)
Physical Functioning - People limited in amount of work they can do (%)
Physical Functioning - People that need special equipment to walk (%)
Physical Functioning - People experiencing confusion/memory problems (%)
Physical Functioning - People requiring special healthcare equipment (%)
Prescription Medications - Average number of prescription medicines taking
Preventive Aspirin Use - Adults 40+ taking low-dose aspirin (%)
Reproductive Health - Vaginal deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Cesarean deliveries (%)
Reproductive Health - Deliveries resulted in a live birth (%)
Reproductive Health - Pregnancies resulted in a delivery (%)
Reproductive Health - Women breastfeeding newborns (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had a hysterectomy (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that had both ovaries removed (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever taken birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women taking birth control pills (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used Depo-Provera or injectables (%)
Reproductive Health - Women that have ever used female hormones (%)
Sexual Behavior - People 18+ that ever had sex (vaginal, anal, or oral) (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had anal sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Males 18+ that ever had any sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had vaginal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever performed oral sex on a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had anal sex with a man (%)
Sexual Behavior - Females 18+ that ever had any kind of sex with a woman (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first had sex
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female vaginal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a woman (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of woman performed oral sex on in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male anal sex partners in lifetime (males 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average age people first performed oral sex on a man (18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male oral sex partners in lifetime (18+)
Sexual Behavior - People using protection when performing oral sex (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of times people have vaginal or anal sex a year
Sexual Behavior - People having sex without condom (%)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of male vaginal sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Average number of female sex partners in lifetime (females 18+)
Sexual Behavior - Circumcised males 18+ (%)
Sleep Disorders - Average hours sleeping at night
Sleep Disorders - People that has trouble sleeping (%)
Smoking-Cigarette Use - People smoking cigarettes (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with smell (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ having problems with taste (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had wisdom teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had tonsils teeth removed (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a loss of consciousness because of a head injury (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had a broken nose or other serious injury to face or skull (%)
Taste & Smell - People 40+ that ever had two or more sinus infections (%)
Weight - Average height (inches)
Weight - Average weight (pounds)
Weight - Average BMI
Weight - People that are obese (%)
Weight - People that ever were obese (%)
Weight - People trying to lose weight (%)