Yet another reason to fly Alaska Airlines (Seattle, Roy: apartments, renter)

[kreebby]

I've been flying since I was an infant. My dad has told me that I flew 3+ times a year as a toddler and I never screamed or acted out. I remember my ears hurting but I never screamed because of it.

Crying babies don't annoy me, screaming kids do. Screaming kids know better, babies don't. I've seen eight-year-olds throwing full out tantrums on planes. But I wouldn't pay more for a plane without kids, what I'd pay more for is a plane where I actually have space and where I don't have to sit next to some prick with an aisle seat who refuses to get up to let me go to the bathroom during a six hour flight (this actually happened to me). I eventually had to call over an attendant who asked him to get up. He looked really, really embarrassed then.

[valthenya]

the guy in front of me slamming his seat way back into my (then) pregnant self complaining about needing circulation... yeah thats the guy we should be kicking off planes not the kids... my kids are really good on planes but i can tell you my son did cry once for about 15-20 min but he was six months old.. oh yeah and my daughter cried when she got sick once.. beyond that its all in how you prepare and parent. its an airplane... your buying a ticket on a airplane that sells tickets to the general public. do you choose not to board a bus because oh god there could be a baby on it? and it might cry? geeze..

[valthenya]

Originally Posted by Xanathos

Yes. Or hire an au pair. Or get your husband to watch him. Single with a 6 month old? Well, maybe you don't get to go to a funeral, because that's a sacrifice you make when you're a single parent. How does your "right" to be there trump over A HUNDRED OTHER PEOPLES' right to not spend 6 hours listening to your kid screaming? See, this is the big gripe I have with newish parents today - they feel it's their right to impede on everybody else around them. Are you going to reimburse me the hundreds of dollars I spent on a ticket because you ruined my entire flight? Of course you won't. And yes, they typically cry for a reason. Boredom, fussiness, don't like the loud noises of the engines, pressurization issues, and a million other things that mean a kid shouldn't be in that situation.

No, I don't have children, but when I do, I'm not going to take them flying until I know they can handle it. I've already had this conversation with mah woman, and she's in total agreement. But yes, clearly it's best to not have people who have respect for others around them and don't think the world revolves around them and that they can impede upon the peace of everybody around them bearing children. I mean, gee, that might result in the kid not being as self-righteous and obnoxious as the "other" type of parent.

There are places where your kid should be, and places where it should not. You'll never see me on a Disney cruise. You'll never hear me utter one word of complaint at an amusement park. Children's CGI movie? Won't spot me in that theatre. Why? Because those are kid domains, and I respect their space (or at the least, tolerate them if I happen to be in their domain). Airplane? NOT a kid domain.

What if she's breastfeeding and the infant wont take a bottle? Children need their parents.. and Airplanes are PUBLIC domain.... not a adult domain..

How about this. my kids (5 and 1.5) will be flying to San Francisco shortly for my daughter's open heart surgery (she's five) Should i just not do this and let her die for your convenience or should I take a car and let her cry in pain and possibly cause injury to her chest after her surgery.. I'm sorry private planes are available for those who are willing to pay for the convenience of not having children aboard

Not to mention at one point you were a screaming wailing "need my mommy" child too ya know...

Parents who dont try to help their children make positive decisions are in the wrong but if my infant is crying because his ears hurt and i'm attempting to make him feel better then there is no reason for you to complain. I will NOT drug my children for your convenience either since that is actually CHILD ABUSE!!

[swerver]

At least kids have an excuse for acting out... they are kids. Here we get to see the adults doing the same thing. "Someone bothered me, wah". You whiners are living in a dream world if you think parents are going to stop flying with their kids just to please you. Xanathos, you always brag about how rich you are, rent your own plane already so you don't have to deal with the common folk.

[rainforest338]

Maybe the airlines could just seat accordingly, such that they put the babies and little monsters near the back of the plane. Keep all the noise and kids that kick seats in the back. Have those that prefer to be away from kids (like me) get a seat in the forward section. I say back of the plane because, typically the people traveling with kids drag so much carry on baggage with them and then stand in the aisle for 10 minutes trying to arragne the overhead compartment that they make boarding and exiting take unnecessarily long. The airlines could offer noise cancelling earphones, too.

[evergraystate]

Problem solved, you're welcome America.

[Xanathos]

So to summarize the latest we have:

1) Deflection of argument to misbehaving adults (silly in and of itself even without ignoring that, on a per capita basis, more children misbehave on flights)
2) "Let's come up with extreme cases to justify flying like "my daughter will DIE if she's not on a plane", as though those are common scenarios
3) Every parent claiming that their children are just the most precious little angels on flights. It's amazing that, given how few infants can fly well, that the parents of every last one of them just happens to be on this very thread
4) More "I have just as much a right to bring my noise pollution onto this plane as you do to be on it because it's a public place!" ignoring that even in public places, people are expected to act with a certain amount of decorum so as to not impugn upon the sanity of those around them or else not venture out.

All of which proving, yet again, why it's not so much the kids I get mad at, it's the parents with that kind of attitude.

[Xanathos]

Originally Posted by valthenya

What if she's breastfeeding and the infant wont take a bottle? Children need their parents.. and Airplanes are PUBLIC domain.... not a adult domain..

Then YOU sacrifice your travel. Your choices are not supposed to be my problems.

How about this. my kids (5 and 1.5) will be flying to San Francisco shortly for my daughter's open heart surgery (she's five) Should i just not do this and let her die for your convenience or should I take a car and let her cry in pain and possibly cause injury to her chest after her surgery.. I'm sorry private planes are available for those who are willing to pay for the convenience of not having children aboard

Another of those "let me pull out some extreme situation that will hopefully garner a sympathetic emotional reaction and have it blanket applied to every family traveling in the air, ever". Dismissed.

Not to mention at one point you were a screaming wailing "need my mommy" child too ya know...

Yes, and my parents didn't put me on a plane for the first time until they knew I could behave for the duration of the flight...

Parents who dont try to help their children make positive decisions are in the wrong but if my infant is crying because his ears hurt and i'm attempting to make him feel better then there is no reason for you to complain. I will NOT drug my children for your convenience either since that is actually CHILD ABUSE!!

Then maybe you shouldn't put your infant on a plane where you know it will cause it ear pain. It was your choice to put the kid on something they are not equipped to deal with, not the kid's. I love your logic "Oh, it's fine if I hurt my infant because its ears can't adjust to the change in pressure, but giving my kid some Benadryl - which causes no pain and has no lasting effects, that's just wrong".

Self righteous bologna.

[gwix98]

Wow...this subject sure touched a nerve!

I am not a fan of young children on planes either,but respect the rights
of responsible parents to bring them along.
We did have to listen to a crying baby all the way to Auckland 6 years
ago...13 hours of bliss for both my wife and I and the poor parents who could
not keep the baby quiet. Guess I see both sides, as a parent myself.

Doubt the air carriers will will ever go to adult only flights.

[eskercurve]

Originally Posted by valthenya

What if she's breastfeeding and the infant wont take a bottle? Children need their parents.. and Airplanes are PUBLIC domain.... not a adult domain..

How about this. my kids (5 and 1.5) will be flying to San Francisco shortly for my daughter's open heart surgery (she's five) Should i just not do this and let her die for your convenience or should I take a car and let her cry in pain and possibly cause injury to her chest after her surgery.. I'm sorry private planes are available for those who are willing to pay for the convenience of not having children aboard

Not to mention at one point you were a screaming wailing "need my mommy" child too ya know...

Parents who dont try to help their children make positive decisions are in the wrong but if my infant is crying because his ears hurt and i'm attempting to make him feel better then there is no reason for you to complain. I will NOT drug my children for your convenience either since that is actually CHILD ABUSE!!

Um, let's see ...

Airplanes cost millions of dollars just to buy. A 737 from Boeing costs $40 to 60 million. Then there's the maintenance (you know that carpet in the aisle? yeah, they have to replace that every MONTH, and those fuel cells need cleaning, and bird guts get on the wings, you get my point). Then there's the crew (two pilots plus stewardresses). Then there's the FUEL. Then there's airport fees for baggage and other "services".

And who pays for that? You indirectly through your fare and fees. But ultimately, the AIRLINE pays for these fees honey. NOT YOU.

THUS, AIRPLANES ARE PRIVATE PROPERTY RENTED TO YOU FOR THE CONVENIENCE OF GETTING FROM POINT A TO POINT B THOUSANDS OF MILES APART QUICKLY. THEY ARE NOT PUBLIC PROPERTY.

Streets are public property. Streetlights are public property. So are parks. You could argue buses are a form of public property. Airplanes? No. Not even close. Now when Seattle Transportation opens their own airline, then I'll reconsider my argument. But until then, sorry hon, you're dead wrong.

The only reason airlines let you and your wailing children on board is because everyone else does it and the media today has this crusade against anyone who rails against the lowest common denominator.

Dramamine, benadryl, and other short term drugs are NOT habit forming nor do they do long term damage. Hundreds of studies looking at tens of thousands of individuals over decades have proven this. Sorry, your argument that it's "child abuse" is at best simple misunderstanding of what real child abuse is, and at worst, idiocy wrapped in self-righteousness.

And then you claim that your child needs open heart surgery and somehow that's not child abuse ... going through all those drugs to prolong her life. I am sorry about your predicament, and your extreme example is one of a few things that would pass. But let's be realistic hon. We're talking about perfectly healthy children with perfectly healthy parents who are being totally spoiled. Not you per se.

God. How spoiled and self-entitled we Americans have become. Airplanes public property my ass. Go live in Mexico for a while to see how spoiled we are here. I rue the day that nations and corporations around the world kick America to the curb ... the citizenry will be in for a major shock.