Official "Seattle Freeze" Discussion Thread (Republic: public school, prestigious)

[W & C]

So in his first post truthteller claims he moved to Seattle 15 years ago and has since moved on, now he says he's been here 10 years and sounds like he's still here.

Childless, drug-riddled Seattle is now a haven for soccer moms and their kids ?

Why do I get the feeling "truthteller" has never actually set a foot in Seattle ?

[Seacove]

Thanks W&C, I too noticed how his stories keep changing.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by Jennibc

This is quite an assumption to make about someone whose parent was in the military. Lots of people join the military and don't have this mindset at all. Plus there are lots of pacifists in both those places that probably like it. But it is this strident view that people who "make different choices than I do must be xyz" that is so prevalent up there really turned me off. I am a fiscal conservative so people up there assumed I must be Republican, and I must be against gay marriage, pro life etc., even though none of that was true.

I am a liberal, my family is liberal... but I also spent a lot of my childhood in and around military bases (dad was stationed at Ft. Lawton in Magnolia for awhile, and we got to live there, which was a pretty sweet deal). I understand that people who haven't been in the military won't generally understand what life is like because they've never spent time on base and may not have any military family members to change their opinions, but the irony of it all is that many of the people I've met who automatically assume that someone in the military is a warmongering meathead who thinks that Bush was the best thing to happen since Reagan are also the sort of people that will immediately jump on someone's back for their assuming that everyone on WIC or Section 8 is lazy, or that all Latin-American immigrants are here illegally.

Go onto a military base, and you'll get a lot of people of different races. You'll see plenty of interracial couples. You'll meet guys and gals who are extremely intelligent, thoughtful, and creative, who grew up in rural hellholes all over the nation and saw the military as their only way out and into the rest of the world. You'll talk to atheists and agnostics, and people who are very critical of the very government they serve - some of the most politically passionate and involved people I've known were members of the military, because they're one of the demographics whose lifestyles (and lives) are the most at risk due to a few too many stupid votes. You go to the commissary, and you'll see Boca Burgers and Morningstar Farms products for the vegetarians, as well as a dizzying array of Asian and Mexican food items. There's a kosher/halal section. It's not like everyone in the military lives in a vacuum where life is just burgers, guns, reminiscing about the Reagan years, and saluting the American flag.

I'd suggest that everyone read this article that appeared on CNN yesterday, regardless of their positon on the military. It's a tear-jerker. It's about Cpl. Andrew Wilfahrt, the first openly-gay soldier to die in Afghanistan since the repealing of DADT.

The soldiers in his unit renamed the outpost they were stationed at COP Wilfahrt in honor of their fallen brother. Sounds like a bunch of homophobic hicks to me!

Soldier leaves legacy much larger than 'he was gay' - CNN.com

Though again, I am a liberal, I'll never understand how people who purport to subscribe to a persona etho of openness, spirited criticism, curiosity and introspection can allow themselves to be so damn ignorant sometimes.

[Seacove]

415, I'd rep you again if I could.

[Woof]

I'm sure there are intelligent, sensitive folks in the Mafia also. The fact is that our military is being mis-used to wage war against people who haven't done anything to us - the people we're killing aren't mostly terrorists, they're simply people trying to stay alive in harsh nations.

Why are we over there? Follow the money trail. It's all about defense contractors gaining influence over Congress, which then votes to spend money on them. It's about drumming up business. Believe it or not, we're not actually "defending our freedoms" that the "terrorists" are jealous about. There's no good reason we couldn't withdraw completely from all foriegn engagements within a month or two.

We spend more on war and our military than Russia, China, and Europe COMBINED! Last time I calculated, we spend more than the next 20 countries combined. Why is it that we can't be satisfied with just enough for self-defense, like say all of Europe combined?

I'd like to remind you, 415, that war is about killing people to force them to do your will, and not just killing other soldiers either. That's the definition of war. The word "warrior" has wonderful romantic connotations nowadays, but a warrior is simply a trained killer. Instead of healing people as a doctor might do, instead of contributing to the betterment of society as even a simply widget assembly line worker might do - he specialized in killing people. He's a trained murderer, or a potential murderer at the whim of defense contractors drumming up some business overseas. Not much different from a Mafia contract killer.

There was a time when our military was mainly about defending this nation, but that time has passed, just as Eisenhower foresaw.

Yeah, I'm strident about this all right. Everyone should be strident about our turn toward evil.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by Woof

I'm sure there are intelligent, sensitive folks in the Mafia also. The fact is that our military is being mis-used to wage war against people who haven't done anything to us - the people we're killing aren't mostly terrorists, they're simply people trying to stay alive in harsh nations.

Why are we over there? Follow the money trail. It's all about defense contractors gaining influence over Congress, which then votes to spend money on them. It's about drumming up business. Believe it or not, we're not actually "defending our freedoms" that the "terrorists" are jealous about. There's no good reason we couldn't withdraw completely from all foriegn engagements within a month or two.

We spend more on war and our military than Russia, China, and Europe COMBINED! Last time I calculated, we spend more than the next 20 countries combined. Why is it that we can't be satisfied with just enough for self-defense, like say all of Europe combined?

I'd like to remind you, 415, that war is about killing people to force them to do your will, and not just killing other soldiers either. That's the definition of war. The word "warrior" has wonderful romantic connotations nowadays, but a warrior is simply a trained killer. Instead of healing people as a doctor might do, instead of contributing to the betterment of society as even a simply widget assembly line worker might do - he specialized in killing people. He's a trained murderer, or a potential murderer at the whim of defense contractors drumming up some business overseas. Not much different from a Mafia contract killer.

There was a time when our military was mainly about defending this nation, but that time has passed, just as Eisenhower foresaw.

Yeah, I'm strident about this all right. Everyone should be strident about our turn toward evil.

Yes. Let's turn ourselves into a nation of lovers and healers with a merely-adequate self defense force so that the world may enjoy sanctimonious peace. While we're living in a fantasy world where everyone does the right thing, we'll assume that everyone else in the world is doing the exact same as us: doing what is right for the people of the earth. China's military will stop picking on Tibet, and will stop claiming that all the islands in the South China Sea are theirs, even when they're off the coast of the Philippines. India and Pakistan will dismantle their nuclear weapons and cooperate with one another to stabilize the region, and groups like the Tamil Tigers will no longer have a reason to exist. I look forward to being able to take a backpacking tour of the Hindu Kush with a friendly, wisened local guide, before I head out to the Sudan to play Cat Steven tunes on my acoustic and learn traditional, local dances. Warriors will become healers. Criminals will become activists. Politicians will become leaders. Let's take all take the first step together, and firmly declare our hatred for the gluttonous meatheaded soldiers of the American Imperialist War Machine.

I promise you, I've hurt and cried more over this war than you could possibly imagine, not just for my family, for our soldiers, but for the Iraqi children whose parents were hit by an errant bomb, for the parents whose children were vaporized by a tank shell that was just a few degrees off. You can talk down to me and explain what a warrior is to me as though I'd never pondered these things all that you'd like, and assume that the connotation to me is a grizzled hero raising a flag in a battlefield, rather than butchered meat in a metal box with a flag draped over it. There's a difference between stridency and ignorance; I won't stoop to the lows of mocking you with their definitions.

This conversation has gotten off topic and is over.

[Woof]

If you want to gullibly swallow propaganda, to control or kill people overseas, do it on your dime - not mine.

[415_s2k]

Originally Posted by Woof

If you want to gullibly swallow propaganda, to control or kill people overseas, do it on your dime - not mine.

Conversation's over

[Jennibc]

Originally Posted by Woof

I'm sure there are intelligent, sensitive folks in the Mafia also.

What an idiotic, asinine statement.

By the way, my nephew is a medic in the army. He's no war lover, he didn't have money for college. He's actually more of an artist, but he needed to learn a trade so this is how he's going about getting that training.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Seacove

415, I'd rep you again if I could.

I did it for ya