Bridges across the sound?! (Seattle, Spokane: new home, tax, living in)

[Andy]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

Average depth is 400 feet and there is shallow areas in the sound just not north of seattle. I doubt it would be 600 feet deep.

Avg. depth = 400 ft deep. Minimum maximum depth anywhere between Edmonds and Tacoma = 600+ ft, with many more feet of muck. It is an impractical idea. It is an unnecessary idea.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

Ok now i have an answer for that question. The point is unless someone here is a stuctural engineer i dont think they can give a definitely answer wether not it is possible to do it.

There is more to the equation than that:

- There's do we need the sucker? NO!
- What will it cost? A fortune.
- What are the opportunity costs? What ever almost a tenth of a trillion can buy, which is a lot.

Spending that much money to enrich a few Kitsap County landowners is beyond insane. It's not like that water crossing is separating multi-millions of people on both sides. It's practically a bridge/tunnel to nowhere.

Ponder how to design a gravity defying vehicle. It would be a more practical use of your time.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

It isn't a matter whether its possible-- other areas like Japan, Virginia Beach, SF show that it could be done. But this is Seattle... it makes sense they would be late on this subject as well. After all, they did catch onto the light rail pretty late.

Well I can't speak for the other areas but San Francisco Bay is generally shallow, most of it less than 100 feet.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by Andy

There is more to the equation than that:

- There's do we need the sucker? NO!
- What will it cost? A fortune.
- What are the opportunity costs? What ever almost a tenth of a trillion can buy, which is a lot.

Spending that much money to enrich a few Kitsap County landowners is beyond insane. It's not like that water crossing is separating multi-millions of people on both sides. It's practically a bridge/tunnel to nowhere.

Ponder how to design a gravity defying vehicle. It would be a more practical use of your time.

It's called preparing you the future. That thing this area never does? Invest in the future to hope it there is benefits for the future. I'm young and would like to see this area grow without COL going through the roof, communities over run with crime, and the place become too populated. I don't know how old you are but if you are older then I could imagine you were the one saying light rail was a waste of money 20 years ago, how does that look now? To dismiss an idea because it's costly or maybe not needed at the moment is what bad city leaders do. Who knows, 20 years from now 6 or 7 million people could be calling this area home. Cities that are quiet communities now no longer be so quiet. The point of that would not be blindly throw money into some with no use, but make a plan now so our future leaders don't have to face the burden. I would rather see change now, with better infrastructure for growth in the community then wait until it's too late to do anything.

[Ira500]

Building light rail encourages people to leave their cars at home. Building a bridge to Vashon and then another bridge to Kitsap County encourages sprawl and people driving. It's great to plan for the future. It's not great to plan for a future that nobody wants, or to shove a plan that nobody wants down their throats. I think if a poll was taken of Vashon residents, probably 95% would be against it. But who cares? They're a casualty and it'll be for their own good.
Right now, there's all kinds of infrastructure that needs to get done. Utilities need to get put underground. Light rail needs to be expanded. Bridges are falling down. Schools are outdated. Funding for parks has been drastically cut. And you want to build a bridge that nobody wants that's going to cost a hundred billion dollars(or something) and will serve a few thousand people. Who is going to pay for it, and how?

Originally Posted by DevanXL

It's called preparing you the future. That thing this area never does? Invest in the future to hope it there is benefits for the future. I'm young and would like to see this area grow without COL going through the roof, communities over run with crime, and the place become too populated. I don't know how old you are but if you are older then I could imagine you were the one saying light rail was a waste of money 20 years ago, how does that look now? To dismiss an idea because it's costly or maybe not needed at the moment is what bad city leaders do. Who knows, 20 years from now 6 or 7 million people could be calling this area home. Cities that are quiet communities now no longer be so quiet. The point of that would not be blindly throw money into some with no use, but make a plan now so our future leaders don't have to face the burden. I would rather see change now, with better infrastructure for growth in the community then wait until it's too late to do anything.

[Inkpoe]

Originally Posted by Gentoo

Well I can't speak for the other areas but San Francisco Bay is generally shallow, most of it less than 100 feet.

I was referring to your second comment:

Originally Posted by Gentoo

This too. I think something would have been done already if it were possible.

I'm just saying that I think it is possible, but this is Seattle-- just because something can be done doesn't mean it would be. As it has been pointed out, there simply is not enough demand so why would it already been done? Even if there were some demand, they would get on it much later than needed.

[DevanXL]

Originally Posted by Ira500

Building light rail encourages people to leave their cars at home. Building a bridge to Vashon and then another bridge to Kitsap County encourages sprawl and people driving. It's great to plan for the future. It's not great to plan for a future that nobody wants, or to shove a plan that nobody wants down their throats. I think if a poll was taken of Vashon residents, probably 95% would be against it. But who cares? They're a casualty and it'll be for their own good.
Right now, there's all kinds of infrastructure that needs to get done. Utilities need to get put underground. Light rail needs to be expanded. Bridges are falling down. Schools are outdated. Funding for parks has been drastically cut. And you want to build a bridge that nobody wants that's going to cost a hundred billion dollars(or something) and will serve a few thousand people. Who is going to pay for it, and how?

See this is what I want, Logically arguments. Yes this is a plan for the future, something to plan know but no actions would be taken for idk 10 years. We do need to invest in rebuilding bridges, Schools, and parks, and hey even the arts aswell! These are important and are first priority, the problem is the state is incredibly slow at doing anything at all. Seattle is developing because of private money, not public. So it's not unreasonable to put stuff and plan and hope it gets done eventually.

To respond to the toll concern, here is my theory. Vashon Island is a community of only 10,000 people on 37 square miles of land. I think all current Vashon island residents could be exempt from tolls to cross the bridge, as it's not meant for them its meant for KITSAP County. That's 250,000 current residents, in which many commute to seattle to work wether drive or ferry, it would serve as a convenience for them and serve as a cheaper easier way from transplants to who want to live in the Seattle area but cant afford it. It would cause an economic boom to the area, and if managed well could keep sprawl from getting too out of controll (zoning laws and planned areas for the cities). By 2030/2035 their population could double.


The car isn't going anywhere, EVER. As much as efforts happen to cut back. As more efficient and cleaner energy goes into out cars it will be less and less of a problem. A bridge could easily be planned to include light rail to go across it.


Bridges really aren't that expensive. I think I read that the channel tunnel was 6 billion dollars and that was a n underground tunnel that spans more then 30 miles! This bridge doesn't have to go underground or even be a traditional bridge. It could be composed of many different sections with different methods of crossing (Traditional bridge, Floating bridge, short underwater passages, etc). We can engineer anything and at the moment no one has any evidence to prove it would be through the roof expensive. Hell road work to merge it on to I-405 could almost be as expensive and the bridge.

All I want to see is people to look at the potential positives. If through history no one took a chance or tried to innovate nothing would get done. Sometimes there is more potential negatives then positives but sometimes you gotta job! thank you for providing actually points to discuss, not just stating it will never happen though.

[sean98125]

A bridge will make sense when the annual cost of operating the ferries exceeds the annual service on the bonds that would need to be issued to build a bridge. Vashon is it clear choice as it is the narrowest channel north of Tacoma. If Vashon doesn't want bridge traffic then we just don't build any ramps on the island. But the road is going to have to cross the island.

There is a lot of land available for housing out there that is closer to Seattle and Redmond than Tacoma and Everett. It would help to spread out the doubling of population that we'll see in this area in the next few decades.

And the personal car isn't going anywhere - it's too efficient, too convenient, and too inexpensive compared to public transportation. There will likely be more self-driving cars by the time a bridge gets built which would improve traffic efficiency, but individual cars are here to stay.

[Pretzelogik]

Originally Posted by DevanXL

As I was look the sound today on the beach, I was wondering how different the sound would be if there was bridges linking the Kitsap peninsula closer to Seattle. So like any bored person I went and looked at a map then went on Paint to draw these hypothetical bridges. I found the best locations would to have a bridge linking Burien/Normandy Park area to Vashon Island and another smaller bridge linking Vashon Island to the Pennisula as highlighted on the drawing. A road could be constructed to merge on the I-405 and on the other side a road could merge with Highway 16 to Bremerton.

Now of course all of this is hypothetical but I want to know how to you think a bridges across the sound could affect the area? How would that affect growth in the Seattle Area? What are the positives of such roads and bridges? What are the drawbacks and negative (Be more creative and just saying taxes with go up). I want to know your opinions.

Hey I have a better idea of what to do with "spare" monies....let's build one more sports stadium in downtown.

[Gentoo]

Originally Posted by Inkpoe

I was referring to your second comment:



I'm just saying that I think it is possible, but this is Seattle-- just because something can be done doesn't mean it would be. As it has been pointed out, there simply is not enough demand so why would it already been done? Even if there were some demand, they would get on it much later than needed.

Ok, I understand that