How do you deal with the pervasive flakiness here? (Seattle: to eat, friendly)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
With all due respect, I really don't think you know what passive-aggressive truly is
Well, I never claimed to be a passive aggressive behavioral scholar or even anything close to an expert. I am just basing a unique pattern of behavior I notice is prevalent from people in the Northwest, especially in Seattle. Of course, these behavior trends are not limited to one region, but I just find it is more commonly experienced in Seattle than anywhere else I have been.
But, if we must get technical, here are some references to how clinical passive-aggressive behavior is classified:
Quote:
Passive-aggressive behavior is the indirect expression of hostility, such as through procrastination, hostile jokes, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible.
For research purposes, the DSM-IV describes passive-aggressive personality disorder as a "pervasive pattern of negativistic attitudes and passive resistance to demands for adequate performance in social and occupational situations".
Quote:
In psychology
In psychology, passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by a habitual pattern of passive resistance to expected work requirements, opposition, stubbornness, and negativistic attitudes in response to requirements for normal performance levels expected of others. Most frequently it occurs in the workplace where resistance is exhibited by such indirect behaviors as procrastination, forgetfulness, and purposeful inefficiency, especially in reaction to demands by authority figures, but it can also occur in interpersonal contexts.
Another source characterizes passive-aggressive behavior as: "A personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and characterised by passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to complying with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. Behaviors: Learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible".
Passive-aggressive may also refer to a person who refuses to acknowledge their own aggression (in the sense of "agency"), and who manages that denial by projecting it. This type of person insists on seeing themselves as the blameless victims in all situations.
According to Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man, a self-help book, a passive man does little to get what he wants as it is too much effort to do so, and ranges from the inept "loser" type to the conformist who does anything to be liked, avoids making waves and rarely says what he feels
So, as you can see this term "passive-aggressive" is actually has quite a loose interpretation, in my opinion. It can apply to several different forms of passive behavior. I, personally, think that the term can be pushed to far to both the "passive" and the "aggressive" bounds of behavior.
Anyhow, I don't think your definition or mine fall outside of the boundaries of the passive-aggressive classification I have quoted from Wikipedia article.
Once again, I am not claiming to be an expert. But I do find a certain type of aggressive behavior from people here that looks very subdued and well concealed, yet vaguely noticeable.
From my own perspective, I would think of two extreme examples on both sides of the spectrum of both actively/overtly aggressive and passive-aggressive, could be:
1. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "You A-hole, Hurry Up or I will make you hurry up". You look at his face and see the angriest look of your life.
2. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "Sir, are you doing Ok? Is everything alright? I'm a little hungry you know!" Then he smiles at you.
Not great examples, but just trying to make some type of distinction. Guy #2 hates you as much as #1, but he feels wrong to show outward aggression, so he attacks you with politeness.
As far as people's facial expressions.. I would think that alone means nothing. It is facial expressions coupled with words and behavior based on an interaction with a person. Yes, some people may just have an "angry look" or a "friendly look", but usually, more times than not, you can tell if someone is giving you a sour face.
From my own perspective, I would think of two extreme examples on both sides of the spectrum of both actively/overtly aggressive and passive-aggressive, could be:
1. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "You A-hole, Hurry Up or I will make you hurry up". You look at his face and see the angriest look of your life.
2. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "Sir, are you doing Ok? Is everything alright? I'm a little hungry you know!" Then he smiles at you.
Not great examples, but just trying to make some type of distinction. Guy #2 hates you as much as #1, but he feels wrong to show outward aggression, so he attacks you with politeness.
How am I even going to know #2 hates me? That's not actually an example of passive aggressiveness as much as someone being slightly a smart-ass...
Though see when #1 happens, sometimes things escalate and people go a little further and sometimes people take things to the next level. That's why in general I'd rather have passive aggressiveness than outright aggressiveness, though in general I'd rather people just be polite and shut up in general if they're not willing to be respectful... But I grew up in a beach town in California known for aggressiveness, and people "just being assertive" often led to fist fights or occasional stabbings(or worse) when some hothead decided they needed to stand up for themselves because someone smudged their Vans...
Well, I never claimed to be a passive aggressive behavioral scholar or even anything close to an expert. I am just basing a unique pattern of behavior I notice is prevalent from people in the Northwest, especially in Seattle. Of course, these behavior trends are not limited to one region, but I just find it is more commonly experienced in Seattle than anywhere else I have been.
But, if we must get technical, here are some references to how clinical passive-aggressive behavior is classified:
So, as you can see this term "passive-aggressive" is actually has quite a loose interpretation, in my opinion. It can apply to several different forms of passive behavior. I, personally, think that the term can be pushed to far to both the "passive" and the "aggressive" bounds of behavior.
Anyhow, I don't think your definition or mine fall outside of the boundaries of the passive-aggressive classification I have quoted from Wikipedia article.
Once again, I am not claiming to be an expert. But I do find a certain type of aggressive behavior from people here that looks very subdued and well concealed, yet vaguely noticeable.
From my own perspective, I would think of two extreme examples on both sides of the spectrum of both actively/overtly aggressive and passive-aggressive, could be:
1. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "You A-hole, Hurry Up or I will make you hurry up". You look at his face and see the angriest look of your life.
2. You are ordering some food at the counter, you are taking a bit long, the guy behind you says, "Sir, are you doing Ok? Is everything alright? I'm a little hungry you know!" Then he smiles at you.
Not great examples, but just trying to make some type of distinction. Guy #2 hates you as much as #1, but he feels wrong to show outward aggression, so he attacks you with politeness.
As far as people's facial expressions.. I would think that alone means nothing. It is facial expressions coupled with words and behavior based on an interaction with a person. Yes, some people may just have an "angry look" or a "friendly look", but usually, more times than not, you can tell if someone is giving you a sour face.
You did a very good job of letting a dictionary speak for you. Most people however don't live their lives straight out of a dictionary so I stand by my statement that you really don't know what it is. Especially if you had to look it up.
If you take what people say about Seattle but replace it with Chicago or Boston or Miami etc., and repeat it for 20 yrs..People would say "Yep..The Miami freeze is real! I felt it, the people were so cold!".."It's so hard to make friends in Boston, they act like you don't even exist!"
It's all a myth. People find what they expect to find.
I get like maybe 40 minutes during the day on the train that are free from work or other chores for me to read my book, so yeah, that's my personal time to just focus on reading. I guess I'm anti-social because I want to tune out the people having loud conversations about their personal family drama and STDs sitting seats down from me...
And as far as this being just a "Seattle thing" or just a "PNW thing", gimme a break... I've ridden public transit in plenty of cities around the world and plenty of people are keeping to themselves in their own little zone, or reading a newspaper or playing with their phone. It's just a city thing.
I work in an office with dozens of other people five days a week. I also deal with the public most of the day on my job. I get plenty of human contact at work. After that I am ready for some quiet down time to zone out. I agree this has little to do with Seattle or the PNW. I just don't need constant socializing that some of the posters here seem to crave so much.
I never had this experience, living in Seattle for 20 years. How well do you know these people you're inviting somewhere? Are these people you just met, or friends?
I guess you should consider yourself lucky then. As I said, I've only been here 2 years so I guess my frame of familiarly with my friends is an order of magnitude less than yours. But even my girlfriend and her friend who have lived in Seattle their entire lives ran into the same issues. They invited 8 people to a dinner and cooked the appropriate amount of food, and then only 4 people showed up. No warning, no response to texts/ calls, nothing. I asked them how they deal with such undependable people. They said it's just something you put up with or you'll have no friends here. There a cultural disrespect in the Northwest for punctuality and dependability.
I guess you should consider yourself lucky then. As I said, I've only been here 2 years so I guess my frame of familiarly with my friends is an order of magnitude less than yours. But even my girlfriend and her friend who have lived in Seattle their entire lives ran into the same issues. They invited 8 people to a dinner and cooked the appropriate amount of food, and then only 4 people showed up. No warning, no response to texts/ calls, nothing. I asked them how they deal with such undependable people. They said it's just something you put up with or you'll have no friends here. There a cultural disrespect in the Northwest for punctuality and dependability.
My circle of friends mainly evolved from my university days. There was never any problem with people not showing up to an event, especially a dinner party or any kind of party. People were always up for that. I don't live in Seattle anymore, but I still have friends there, and they report having none of these "flakiness" problems in their circles of friends. Is this a techie thing, or peculiar to some demographic group? I can't help but wonder. I'd never heard of it until I came to this forum.
You did a very good job of letting a dictionary speak for you. Most people however don't live their lives straight out of a dictionary so I stand by my statement that you really don't know what it is. Especially if you had to look it up.
The problem with this theory is that Seattle tends to attract cliquey, flaky people from all over the US. This town is made up of a lot of transplants, but you can't always tell the difference because they tend to blend in with all the other very passive personalities. I appreciate the advice, but unfortunately there is no "formula" for breaking the ice, it must be taken care of as a product of sheer perseverance.
This is very true. I'm a transplant, but I fit in perfectly with the culture here. Call me a flake; that's fine. I've been called worse. We're just introverts here, and we tend to be friendly but passive. That's how we roll. I'm sure it stinks for gregarious extroverts who thrive on human interaction, but think of how I -- someone who scores 100% introvert every time I take one of those Myers-Briggs personality tests -- felt living on the East Coast, where people are loud and rude, push themselves on you, get in your face, and never shut their mouths. It was a nightmare.
If you find a lot of people flaking out on social obligations, it's very possible they felt pushed into saying yes, and then dealt with it by just not showing up. If someone is really into you, they'll show up. If they don't show up, well, I imagine you wouldn't want to have that person around anyway, so no harm, no foul.
So how do you deal with it? I dunno. Work really hard at finding a fellow extrovert (they're here, and not quite as rare as Republicans), or keep hoping you can pop an introvert's bubble enough to get them to let you in to their private inner circle. Anything is possible, I suppose.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
