How do you feel as a king county tax payer? (minimum wage, sales tax)

[BATCAT]

The idea that public services, infrastructure, transit, etc can/should all all be expected to turn a profit (to be considered worthwhile or successful) is out of touch with history and reality. As much as candidates love to go on about "running the government like a business", they aren't the same thing, and they never can be.

[fnh]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

The idea that public services, infrastructure, transit, etc can/should all all be expected to turn a profit (to be considered worthwhile or successful) is out of touch with history and reality. As much as candidates love to go on about "running the government like a business", they aren't the same thing, and they never can be.

Amen.

I'm a happy King County taxpayer. I have homes of comparable value in both Seattle and Houston and the taxes I pay on my Houston home are triple those of my Seattle home. (We have high sales tax in Houston, too.) And for that money, in Houston I get far, far less in terms of public/social benefit - mediocre schools, mediocre libraries, few parks, no public transit to speak of... Seattle isn't perfect (no city is) but I think you're getting a bargain there in King County where people at least pretend to care about and are willing to support 'the greater good'.

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by Ira500

Not one penny of union dues goes towards supporting candidates. They have a separate PAC, in which union members can choose to have additional money taken out of their paychecks to support these candidates, but most of the members choose not to do this.
Going non union with drivers is a really bad idea. Do you think you can get 3500 people with commercial driver's licenses in the seattle area who would be willing to drive a bus for substantially lower wages than current bus drivers make? I don't. The economy here is buzzing along. I read here that it takes 100,000 dollars per year for a family to survive in the Seattle area.
So, basically, you want drivers to live somewhere cheaper like Puyallup, spend 2 hours getting to and from work each day so they can then drive 8-12 hours per day?
If you're comparing wages to the private sector, UPS drivers make comparable wages to Metro bus drivers. And boxes don't threaten and shoot drivers.

I don't believe that your point about union dues & PACs has been the case since 2007 in WA. Gov Gregoire signed HB 2079 to change that.
2007 House Bill 2079: Concerning use of agency shop fees. - Washington Votes

2007 House Bill 2079: Concerning use of agency shop fees.

1. Introduced by Rep. Joe McDermott (D) on February 7, 2007, to modify current law that prohibits labor organizations from using shop fees from non-members for political campaigns. This bill would allow shop fees to be used for political campaigns as long as the labor organization has sufficient funds from other sources

Link showing that UPS drivers make comparable wages? Metro drivers are the third highest paid in the nation. Metro does not require a HS diploma and had 20 drivers who made over $100,000 in 2010.
King County Metro Bus Driver Wages Grow out of Control | Washington Policy Center

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

The idea that public services, infrastructure, transit, etc can/should all all be expected to turn a profit (to be considered worthwhile or successful) is out of touch with history and reality. As much as candidates love to go on about "running the government like a business", they aren't the same thing, and they never can be.

Again circular logic.

It's like one guy saying, "We've got troops in 100 foreign countries. Why can't we bring some back and save money." And the other guy answers: "Because we've got military commitments around the world."

You're just restating the premise in different words, then claiming that you've somehow made your case.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

Again circular logic.

It's like one guy saying, "We've got troops in 100 foreign countries. Why can't we bring some back and save money." And the other guy answers: "Because we've got military commitments around the world."

You're just restating the premise in different words, then claiming that you've somehow made your case.

I don't need to make a case because what I'm saying is already how things are/work.

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

I don't need to make a case because what I'm saying is already how things are/work.

I'm going to use that line next time I can't back up an ill-considered assertion.

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

I don't believe that your point about union dues & PACs has been the case since 2007 in WA. Gov Gregoire signed HB 2079 to change that.
2007 House Bill 2079: Concerning use of agency shop fees. - Washington Votes

[/list]Link showing that UPS drivers make comparable wages? Metro drivers are the third highest paid in the nation. Metro does not require a HS diploma and had 20 drivers who made over $100,000 in 2010.
King County Metro Bus Driver Wages Grow out of Control | Washington Policy Center

What is the average wage of UPS truck drivers

[wutitiz]

Originally Posted by Ira500

What is the average wage of UPS truck drivers

OK Ira, you got me on that one. However your link says that UPS drivers wash at a 45% rate, suggesting that they must have incredibly demanding standards. I would like to know what the washout rate is among metro drivers. And it remains that Seattle metro drivers are the 3rd highest paid in the nation, higher than NYC, LA, Chicago, and DC.


http://seattletransitblog.com/wp-con.../06/wage-1.png

[Ira500]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

OK Ira, you got me on that one. However your link says that UPS drivers wash at a 45% rate, suggesting that they must have incredibly demanding standards. I would like to know what the washout rate is among metro drivers. And it remains that Seattle metro drivers are the 3rd highest paid in the nation, higher than NYC, LA, Chicago, and DC.


http://seattletransitblog.com/wp-con.../06/wage-1.png

At Metro, you start out at as a part time driver, with a guarantee of 2 1/2 hrs per day, and it often takes years before getting to go fulltime. It also takes years to get to the top of the pay scale.
I don't know the washout rate among Metro drivers, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were the same as UPS's. I know a lot of ex Metro drivers. Some quit, some get fired, some get lots of injuries and can't drive anymore. Also, while there might not be a HS graduation requirement, I've met Metro drivers with master's degrees.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by wutitiz

People who stay home, or walk to work, benefit drivers even more. For that matter, they benefit the bus riders too, by opening up bus seats. Should bus riders be taxed to subsidize those who stay at home and walk to work?

True, and that's why additional gas tax, or tab fee is more appropriate than property or sales tax for transit. Those who stay home or walk to work have the benefit of no commute cost, and in the case of walking, the side effect of good exercise.