$15 wage protests (Seattle: student loans, lawyers, unemployed)

[PrincessoftheCape]

I was watching the Q13 Fox News broadcast last night and they did a story on a local protest in a McDonalds demanding $15 an hour minimum wages. There are similar protests ongoing this morning in California, and other places. I won't delve in depth into the outright stupidity of shutting down a franchise business to protest wages set by a corporate office hundreds of miles away, but I did want to examine an exchange that occurred near the end of the story.

After talking to a few locals who were held up when the protest moved outside (including some woman who was absolutely livid when they surrounded her car), the story shifted to interviewing a couple of local business owners on a hypothetical wage rise.

'What would you do if they razed the minimum wage to $15 an hour?'

'I would have to close.'

Okay, so far, so normal, right? But Fox went back to the leader of the protest and asked her for her response to what the business owners said.

'They say that if they raise wages, they're going to have to close.'

'Well, they could just advertise more and then they'd make more money.'

...

...

...

I'm not making that up. That's what she said.

Is this really what these people think? That... businesses aren't making as much money as they possibly can right now?

I mean, isn't the point of all this that these big, monstrous employers (you know, the mom and pop coffee shops, who everyone seems to forget would be dragged into this wage nightmare too) are clinging to all the cash? So... why would they be making a conscious decision not to earn the maximum amount of money right now? Are people so brain dead that they think a business can just 'advertise more' and more money will flow in?

Honestly, I'm just astonished. It seems like Seattle is leading the charge in driving America into bankruptcy. Apparently, progressivism is king -- it doesn't matter if that progressivism would doom our very way of life. And the fact that people haven't even considered the repercussions is a little shocking. Why are they pushing this nonsense so hard?

[Hemlock140]

Consider the source of the idiotic comment.

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

Consider the source of the idiotic comment.

I know but... this is the front person. I mean, this is the individual they chose to make their case. And when confronted with the very simple truth that a $15 wage would unleash devastation, you get this statement that's just utterly disconnected from reality.

Look, I understand why people don't like making minimum wage (I understand much less why rich housewives seem to think its their business protest on their behalf). But, at least in theory, if you're making minimum wage over the long term, you didn't go to college. That means you don't have a lot of loan debt to cover. It's the same as when my dad was in the military -- a lot of the enlisted men were actually better off than the officers because they didn't have a lot of debt to cover.

It's just... this whole thing is kind of astonishing. If there's a recovery going on, it's tepid. The $15 thing would plunge us into a recession so profound that it hasn't been seen in modern times.

[jm31828]

I am not defending this, because that response was idiotic and I agree that the $15 minimum wage would not do us a lot of good. But I do wonder if a lot of these businesses would not close, but just raise prices on goods and services to make up the difference? If every company was affected, then they could all raise their prices and not lose out competitively or lose business. BUT, of course that just means everything would get more expensive and the buying power of that $15 per hour would be down to where it is now with the current minimum wage, so still absolutely no benefit.

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by jm31828

I am not defending this, because that response was idiotic and I agree that the $15 minimum wage would not do us a lot of good. But I do wonder if a lot of these businesses would not close, but just raise prices on goods and services to make up the difference? If every company was affected, then they could all raise their prices and not lose out competitively or lose business. BUT, of course that just means everything would get more expensive and the buying power of that $15 per hour would be down to where it is now with the current minimum wage, so still absolutely no benefit.

Yes, you're basically describing a massive, forced inflation. Except that there would be a multi-year lag where the consumer suffered before wages of non-minimum wagers caught up. And that would lead to a huge recession.

If there is a problem (and that is open to debate. I would argue that the bigger problem is that the stale 'recovery' has forced people who used to be in good jobs into these fast food positions, and thus they are making less than they once did), then this isn't the solution. If you want people to make more money, then they have to be doing something more productive and skilled than shelving goods at Walmart at midnight, or flipping burgers. These are the lowest tier of low tier jobs. There are (or were) positions above these that still did not require an education and pay more.

We used to have an industrial base in this country that welcomed hard-working people to decent-paying labor jobs that could support a family. Those jobs are largely gone now, and they haven't been replaced. Worse still, we've flooded the market with college educated workers -- workers who have higher expectations of pay, but who, at the same time, are collectively lowering the value of their own education because degrees have become so commonplace.

I'm not sure what the solution is. I do think, though, that we aren't done with bubbles popping. The next one to go, IMO, is the college loan debt bubble. You can only have so many unemployed or underemployed youths who cannot discharge debt (you can't get rid of college loan debt with a bankruptcy except through extremely special circumstances) for so long before you see some form of collapse. Boomers aren't leaving their jobs, educated young people are being forced into low-wage positions, others are finding no work at all, and eventually it all comes crashing down.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by PrincessoftheCape

...the very simple truth that a $15 wage would unleash devastation,

I don't think that it's been established as a "very simple truth".

I also think that a reasonable argument could be made that the current situation for lower-wage workers in the US has already "unleashed" a certain amount of "devastation" on certain socioeconomic groups.

[PrincessoftheCape]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

I don't think that it's been established as a "very simple truth".

I also think that a reasonable argument could be made that the current situation for lower-wage workers in the US has already "unleashed" a certain amount of "devastation" on certain socioeconomic groups.

Then it's been 'devastation' for the last two decades, which I simply do not buy. There are always going to be people working in the lowest pay bracket -- always. This the root of capitalism. HOWEVER, the system allows for people unhappy with their lot in life to improve it. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no socio-economic structure yet conceived where everyone is rich. I'm sure we'll all flock to it the moment someone invents it.

As JM said, even if we raised the wages, it would be only a matter of time before things naturally adjusted, and $15 an hour seemed like peanuts.

[civic94]

Originally Posted by jm31828

I am not defending this, because that response was idiotic and I agree that the $15 minimum wage would not do us a lot of good. But I do wonder if a lot of these businesses would not close, but just raise prices on goods and services to make up the difference? If every company was affected, then they could all raise their prices and not lose out competitively or lose business. BUT, of course that just means everything would get more expensive and the buying power of that $15 per hour would be down to where it is now with the current minimum wage, so still absolutely no benefit.

if the min wage is raised to 15 per hour, all those savers who saved so hard in the past on 15 an hour will suffer. and of course, the folks who have better jobs that pay 15 an hour now (such as a pharm tech, supervisor, bus driver) now will demand higher wages.




15 an hour fast food place is not good for america, if i had a choice of going to college, get in debt, only to make 20 an hour with student loans, or just get a 15 dollar per hour mcdonalds job without loans, i would probably not go to college since the standard of living is the same.

[509]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

I don't think that it's been established as a "very simple truth".

I also think that a reasonable argument could be made that the current situation for lower-wage workers in the US has already "unleashed" a certain amount of "devastation" on certain socioeconomic groups.

Does anybody remember McDonald's paying $10 an hour in the 1990's?? Given inflation that is pretty close to $15 an hour.

Then the Federal Government opened the borders and wages plummeted for low wage workers. They are now working their way up the ladder dragging down wages for working class jobs. Here are jobs that businesses will no longer hire Americans: roofers, carpenters, heavy equipment operators, appliance repair, landscaping, etc. They are hard workers, but just the number looking for jobs suppresses wages.

The union movement and working wages never made much headway until immigration was restricted in the early 1900's.

A $15 minimum wage will lead to MORE illegal immigration and more working under the table without paying taxes by the employer or employee.

The only wages that have NOT gone done due to massive illegal immigration are those requiring licenses to operate like Doctors and Lawyers and public employees since they must be citizens in most cases. Oh, almost forgot the large corporations have done REALLY WELL since 2009.

The US reached ZERO POPULATION GROWTH in 1980....and that is when the Federal Government starting opening the borders to illegals. Funny how that worked.

Make sure your job is protected from illegal workers. It is going to be a long slide down otherwise.

This is not an anti-immigration rant..... I am a LEGAL immigrant.

[jjinla]

The main point that is being lost on all of these workers screaming for a raise to $15 an hour is that most of them will be out of jobs tomorrow and replaced by much more skilled and employable people if minimum wage were to increase so dramatically.

As for illegals, I've always wondered why liberals support them so much because if anything, the wealthy benefit far more from their presence.