$15 minimum wage in Seattle (Roosevelt: lawyers, homes, tech jobs)

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

If you look at the City Counsel votes, most are 8-1, Sawant against all the rest. Even the $15 minimum wage proposal is a modest bone toss, by the time all businesses are at $15 the cost of living will be that much higher and the minimum wage worker will still be at the same lifestyle as now. Worse, if the predictions of businesses raising prices, closing or moving away come to pass.

Yes, but if it wasn't passed (or a court decision invalidates it), workers would be that further behind.

I don't doubt that there will be some price raises, but they will probably be concentrated in those businesses that hire a lot of minimum wage workers (fast food joints?). Note, however, that Dick's currently pays wage and benefits (health/educational) worth well more than $15/hour and has the lowest fastfood prices in town. While some businesses might not be as profitable (as a share of revenues), that doesn't mean they won't still be profitable, or that they won't actually be doing more business and making more total profits (due to workers having more spending money).

As to closing or moving away, that's certainly possible, but, once again, will mostly affect businesses that hire a lot of minimum wage workers. I doubt McDonald's or Burger King will be abandoning Seattle. Businesses currently paying, say, $12/hour, will be more likely to simply adjust to the new pay scale once it phases in.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by Basilide

Yeah, because someone making 15/hr now after getting a raise, having an education, and doing technical work is suddenly going to be ok with making minimum wage.

I answered her question. You are answering some other question.

[Basilide]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Just wondering... what happens to all the wages for office workers and others who, before the new minimum wage, were making $5 over minimum, and thought they were doing halfway decently?

Originally Posted by BATCAT

Answers:
Nothing happens to them.

Wrong.

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

Does everyone's wage get hiked now, so that those office workers are suddenly making $20/hr., and the $20/hr. people get theirs hiked to $25/hr, and on up?

Originally Posted by BATCAT

No.

You don't know that. People are already upset when they make less than what the new minimum wage will be. It's more reasonable to expect they will want higher wages as well.

Originally Posted by BATCAT

I answered her question. You are answering some other question.

No, I'm saying you're answers are wrong. That clearer now?

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by Basilide

No, I'm saying you're answers are wrong. That clearer now?

The question was:

Does everyone's wage get hiked now, so that those office workers are suddenly making $20/hr., and the $20/hr. people get theirs hiked to $25/hr, and on up?

There is absolutely nothing in the minimum wage legislation that does this.

The question was not "will people want or expect higher wages". It was, again "does everyone's wage get hiked...?"

You are extrapolating.

[Basilide]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

The question was:

Does everyone's wage get hiked now, so that those office workers are suddenly making $20/hr., and the $20/hr. people get theirs hiked to $25/hr, and on up?

There is absolutely nothing in the minimum wage legislation that does this.

The question was not "will people want or expect higher wages". It was, again "does everyone's wage get hiked...?"

You are extrapolating.

It's unlikely that Ruth was asking if increased wages for other workers will be legislated, because they have no power to legislate such a thing.

I didn't realize you were attempting to insult others by purposefully misreading the phrasing of a question. My bad.

[BATCAT]

Originally Posted by Basilide

It's unlikely that Ruth was asking if increased wages for other workers will be legislated, because they have no power to legislate such a thing.

I didn't realize you were attempting to insult others by purposefully misreading the phrasing of a question. My bad.

I'm not attempting to insult anyone, and I thought Ruth's question was pretty clearly asking if the minimum wage legislation has an effect on already-existing wages over 15.

[Basilide]

Originally Posted by BATCAT

I'm not attempting to insult anyone, and I thought Ruth's question was pretty clearly asking if the minimum wage legislation has an effect on already-existing wages over 15.

She referred to it as a domino effect, which doesn't sound like something legislated.

But... now I don't know! I guess Ruth will have to weigh in. Sorry.

[victorianpunk]

Originally Posted by Basilide

So, apparently you didn't read the report you posted. Please read what I wrote again. In the report, they assume that a single person making 10.62 an hour can afford 1000/mo rent. That is laughable.

Maybe it would be hard to pay it, but it can be done. And certainly one could afford a share of the rent at 11.50/hour.

For one, since there has been a rise in the number of graduates with minimum wage jobs, you have to assume that all those graduates were majoring in one of your pre-defined "useless" majors. You also have to assume that the recession did not impact graduates with supposedly "useful" degrees.

I will once again destroy the old, tired argument about "this recession is different". In the '70-'73 recession, a BIGGER portion of the jobs created were low wage jobs than in the current one. That is just the way economics work. But no body cried and moaned; they just toughed it out and got better jobs when they came around.

Here is the link again. Try reading it this time:
macroblog - Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta

What you're calling entitled is a reaction to being told -- and believing -- the we can have a decent living if we work hard, go to school, get a degree doing something in demand and useful to society... and all of it was lies. We do all the "right" things and still get shafted. We're learn the hard way that we have to demand what we are worth instead of follow the rules penned out for us. Otherwise, we get a lifetime of debt (increasing every year way past inflation rates), have trouble finding any work at all for many "useful" degrees, work for insulting pay that doesn't make ends meet, and all the while are told we're entitled for being angry about wasting our time with a broken system and trying to change it. So pull your head out of your butt. Thanks.

This "broken system" creates wealth for all and is a hell of a lot better than every other system of Earth. And yes, majoring in something useless will result in a lifetime of flipping burgers. Again, the link you don't want to read:

30 Worst Paying College Majors: 2014


NO ONE is entitled to "a living wage". And what the hell is a "living wage" anyway? Everyone has different needs. Do you really think 15/hour is a "living wage" for Daddy Dugger and his 20 kids? No. And if he was out of work and couldn't find a good enough job I would say it is his fault for confusing his wife's vagina for a clown car.

But can a kid living with roommates live on $11/hour? I DID JUST THAT!

Want more money? Apply yourself and earn it. The system is NOT broken. What is broken is the work ethic of lazy people. I was never given anything in life and came from a poor family, but instead or waving a banner around and shouting dorm room slogans I worked hard and got a raise.

In the end, Benjamin Franklin was right:


“When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

[victorianpunk]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Economic research straddles both sides of the debate (and is often conducted with a foregone conclusion in mind). I do believe that raising the minimum wage, both locally and nationally, is long overdue. If that wasn't the case, the Kshama Sawants and her ilk wouldn't be getting the hearing, and votes, that they are.

She go a hearing because Seattle loves idiot politics. Again, they are "solving" traffic by creating a bike share program.

This 15now garbage would NEVER happen on the East Coast or in the South. Only in places like Seattle would this nonsense happen.

Your argument, on the other hand, would seem to be opposed to the minimum wage as such, in that you are opposed to raising it under any circumstances. Then, why not bring back child labor? Serfdom? Debt bondage? They all would, arguably, lower prices and increase profits.

Actually, having no minimum wage wouldn't be so bad. Sweden, the "socialist utopia", has no minimum wage at all. Instead unions, not the government, negotiate these things.

A union, unlike one big law, can go business to business, case by case and figure out what works for everyone through negotiation. This law does NOT do so. What may be okay for Safeway is not going to be okay for the bodega up the road.

No, Ford was certainly no socialist. He was hoping to be able to hire better workers. That, and competitors raising wages to match, did over time turn those workers into middle-class consumers, however.

Yes, and that happens in Seattle too. Dick's drive in starts people off at over $11/hour. So why not just get people to reward businesses that pay their workers more instead of shoving this law that nobody but the hipsters wanted down everyone's throats?


Oh, and another reason why this law is pointless is this: North Dakota has a $7.25/hour minimum wage. Know what McDonald's in North Dakota pays its employees? 15 DOLLARS AND HOUR! http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money...ota/50136572/1

Reason being their economy is booming. The way to fight poverty is not through idiotic laws, but by growing economies. After carefully reading up on this subject I've come to the conclusion that indeed free markets are the best way to help the poor.

But Seattle will never listen to such advise. If oil was discovered in the Puget Sound they would leave it alone and grow locally source organic rutabagas powered by bicycles to and funded by taxpayer dollars to create jobs instead or some other liberal abomination.

[Seacove]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

If oil was discovered in the Puget Sound they would leave it alone and grow locally source organic rutabagas powered by bicycles to and funded by taxpayer dollars to create jobs instead or some other liberal abomination.

And thank <enter your personal deity> for that! I have no interest in wrecking Puget Sound in the pursuit of oil. Ever.

You can rant and rave about the $15. Seattle minimum wage that doesn't go into full effect until 2021, but it's done. I think the histrionic predictions are way overblown. But you're moving to the South where it sounds like you are far more suited so what's the problem?