Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Ex-Felons, teenagers and even people with high school education will not be able to get jobs in Seattle. No one is going to pay 15/hour to someone without a degree, even if it is to work at McDonald's. And yes, at that pay rate college graduates would be okay working at McDonald's. And at 15/hour, who the hell is going to hire someone who doesn't speak fluent English? Say good-bye to immigrant employees and hello to an even whiter city!
Prices will go up 30-40%...and spare me, SPARE ME and quotes on San Fransisco raising their MW. They had only slight increases in restaurant prices after a 30% increase in the MW, not a 61% increase.
Businesses in Seattle will suffer. No one in Vancouver Washington wines and dines or shops in Vancouver when they can go to Portland right across the bridge with no sales tax. If people in Vancouver go across a bridge to save 6%, what's to stop Seattlites from going across a bridge to save 20%?
And the big winner: BELLEVUE! And Shoreline and Kent. I mean, if I'm in North Seattle and want to order a pizza, am I going to order a pizza from a place in Seattle or Shoreline, with the Shoreline Pizza costing 30% less?
There will be a row of delivery places just outside of Seattle and not a single pizza or Chinese delivery restaurant within five miles of the city limits.
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,580 posts, read 81,186,228 times
Reputation: 57818
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanhawk
I think the fast food giants can handle it, maybe through more automation, but some small businesses with a tiny profit margin and a couple of employees making $9 or $10/hr seeing their wage costs increase 50% may have to relocate, or just fold up.
Has this been implemented in Seatac yet? I haven't heard of how it's affecting things there.
Yes, it's in effect since 1/1/2014 in Seatac, but since by state law it doesn't apply to the airport (still in court) and with other exemptions it affects less than 1,600 people, some of whom made almost that already. Mostly big hotels and parking companies.
Businesses in Seattle will suffer. No one in Vancouver Washington wines and dines or shops in Vancouver when they can go to Portland right that broughdge with no sales tax. If people in Vancouver go across a bridge to save 6%, what's to stop Seattlites from going across a bridge to save 20%?
And the big winner: BELLEVUE! And Shoreline and Kent. I mean, if I'm in North Seattle and want to order a pizza, am I going to order a pizza from a place in Seattle or Shoreline, with the Shoreline Pizza costing 30% less?
Your Vancouver argument is actually a bit flawed. It was true 10 years ago... now it falls under somewhat true. What's changed its the traffic patterns. It's so bad now that Vancouverites will go over for big ticket items, lots of stores are setting shop in Vancouver and a lot people willingly pay the 8.4 sales tax just to bypass the bridges/bad traffic. Seattle's traffic is already bad now, who's to say it won't get worser that saving yourself that 20% be worth it?
I think in addition to the winners you listed, this could give the very boost Tacoma needs.
I think the fast food giants can handle it, maybe through more automation, but some small businesses with a tiny profit margin and a couple of employees making $9 or $10/hr seeing their wage costs increase 50% may have to relocate, or just fold up.
Has this been implemented in Seatac yet? I haven't heard of how it's affecting things there.
Not all fast food places are big corporate machines. A lot of them are franchise people bought with there own money and it not cheap to do so. I wanted to buy a Dunk in donuts franchise but did not have 250K in cash and 500 k in liquid assets.
I am willing to bet a lot of people will get payed under the table in cash. The government can suck it IMO.
small businesses will just pay cash under the table.
inflation will go up faster.
cost of stuff like pizza, hamburgers, jimmy johns, etc. will cost more. take a look at mcdonald's prices, bottled water, etc. at seatac for reference.
or just go to the eastside suburbs outside of seattle to get normal prices.
personally, i don't really care that much. try to make them pay $15/hr if you want to. in the end, the market usually wins out any artificial minimum wage, etc.
Businesses in Seattle will suffer. No one in Vancouver Washington wines and dines or shops in Vancouver when they can go to Portland right across the bridge with no sales tax. If people in Vancouver go across a bridge to save 6%, what's to stop Seattlites from going across a bridge to save 20%?
And the big winner: BELLEVUE! And Shoreline and Kent. I mean, if I'm in North Seattle and want to order a pizza, am I going to order a pizza from a place in Seattle or Shoreline, with the Shoreline Pizza costing 30% less?
There will be a row of delivery places just outside of Seattle and not a single pizza or Chinese delivery restaurant within five miles of the city limits.
I can just see this conversation.
DH: Honey, let's drive to Bellevue for dinner.
DW: Why would we want to do that?
DH: To save $12. Except then there's the bridge toll and the hour it's going to take to get there and back if traffic is unusually good. We may end up saving $6.
DW: Let's not. Don't bring this up again please. This talk of going to Bellevue has made me lose my appetite.
The problem with this scenario is the people that really spend enough on local shopping to make a difference are also the same ones that prefer the convenience of shopping locally. Sure, some people will adopt these habits but likely not the ones that prioritize convenience over cost.
DH: To save $12. Except then there's the bridge toll and the hour it's going to take to get there and back if traffic is unusually good. We may end up saving $6.
DW: Let's not. Don't bring this up again please. This talk of going to Bellevue has made me lose my appetite.
The problem with this scenario is the people that really spend enough on local shopping to make a difference are also the same ones that prefer the convenience of shopping locally. Sure, some people will adopt these habits but likely not the ones that prioritize convenience over cost.
I think the real issue will be whether the small businesses in seattle end up relocating across the lake or to other cities in the area due to this. Small businesses on a thin profit margin, may end up having to do so or scale back workers/cut hours.
DH: To save $12. Except then there's the bridge toll and the hour it's going to take to get there and back if traffic is unusually good. We may end up saving $6.
DW: Let's not. Don't bring this up again please. This talk of going to Bellevue has made me lose my appetite.
The problem with this scenario is the people that really spend enough on local shopping to make a difference are also the same ones that prefer the convenience of shopping locally. Sure, some people will adopt these habits but likely not the ones that prioritize convenience over cost.
Just out of curiosity...if I'm living in North Seattle, say on 135th St and something, and I want to drive for dinner, will I go to Shoreline or deeper into Seattle? And what is the toll on the bridge to Shoreline? Oh, wait....
Really, how could a pizza delivery place survive in North Seattle when one can be parked in Shoreline and have cost at 20% cheaper?
And even people with money are price conscious. I've worked in fine dining for years and even people with tons of money will say no to a fifteen dollar martini or order less of them. And if they can get a deal, they'll take it.
By the way, if a dinner is 150 for two people, 20% of that is actually $30. That would be worth someone on the Eastern side of Seattle driving to Bellevue or someone on the south side driving a mile to Tukwilla.
In the end, small businesses will close their doors and giant corporations who can handle the increasing of wages, automation of services via machines as well as increasing the prices of their products and still can come out on top will benefit. What this poor attempt at wealth redistribution accomplishes is nothing more than attacking small business owners, which are already becoming less and less prevalent in Seattle, which is a city more or less run by big corporations.. For a city that touts itself as progressive and supportive of the poor and humble, they have done a great job empowering the mega corporations that they speak so badly against. These people don't realize that the corporation giants are not hurt by their futile attempt at socialism, which actually would have worked better in a society that does not have a corporate elite, as the USA who can circumvent many of the foolish lower-level socialist measures they try to incorporate. For example, most of these giant corporations pay much less taxes than the smaller business owners. I work in small family business and at least 25% of all our income goes to taxation. Whereas, the big guys at the top pay half of that.. Now, our small business is forced to pay higher salaries that we cannot afford. However, these big corporate elites will have less trouble paying the higher wages, as most of the jobs they will provide in the city woudl cater to higher wage earners and professionals anyway, which would not be affected
Basically, Seattle will no longer be a place where a small mom and pop business can survive anymore. It will be ironic, but it will be at the point where the only jobs available in Seattle will be for professionals, skilled labor and blue collar work that would have paid higher than $15/hr anyway. You will not see those cool and hip food joints or neat record stores anymore, when the costs of operating the stores become too high. Instead, you will have large corporate chains who will be installing automated cash registers like you are seeing at most supermarkets, like Fred Meyer now. Heck, even the PCC health food store in Fremont has a whole line of automated registers. Think of the jobs that were lost by the use of those machines.
Guess what, we live in the technological age and if we push employers too hard, they will also utilize technology which will start to become more economical than human workers. As a matter of fact, technology has contributed to the lost of many jobs in our country and we are too naive to see it.
This mentality of punishing employers as the bad guy, sadly is self-destructive. We keep touting the need of higher wages because there is not enough jobs anymore and so many jobs people previously had are going overseas. Now we are stuck with a lot of low-end service jobs. Guess what? Do you know why so many of those jobs went overseas and the employers found ways to circumvent restrictions and regulations on employers? It is because of impulsive measures like these! We have imposed so many restrictions, rules, wage controls, taxes on employers that many of America's most prominent industries jumped ship and went overseas where they could avoid them. Welcome to the modern world! Socialism is failing! Yet, we just get emotional and complain how these employers were so bad for leaving our country and outsourcing all the jobs to foreign countries.. Well, these are businesses , not charities and people are in it to make a profit! This is what we call capitalism and businesses, by nature, will try doing everything in their power to circumvent your socialist regulations.
So, instead of trying to help find ways to help promote business, stimulate the economy by innovation, creativity and a hard work ethic, we instead think we must enforce more regulations and siphon more money out of the pockets of those evil business owners who are hording too much of the walth for themselves. They claim Seattle is getting too expensive and the wages will not compensate. Let me ask you, why is Seattle getting too expensive and wages are not matching up?? Perhaps, the problem is not that Seattle's jobs do not pay enough, but instead there is too many unskilled people coming to Seattle who do not meet the qualifications of the job market?? Everybody wants the beautiful Puget Sound, to live in the cool, hip and overpriced neighborhoods and go skiing on the weekends at Steven Pass. However, with a degree in art history or being an inspiring musician, you may just not have the skills necessary to live comfortably in this city. So the solution?? Punish the businesses that are keeping the city thriving and forcing them to pay more money to people who do not have the skills desired, because it is considered unethical that they cannot live comfortably in Seattle.
Yes, some may quote the immediate benefit an increased wage may have... But, they do not see the longer term repercussion. Suddenly, many low wage earners have some more spending money, but the long term effect will be devastation of smaller businesses, as well a major hit to the economy, as jobs and businesses move out of the city. The prices will increase even more, yet productivity will decrease. Also, skilled workers, may suddenly jump ship and move to other cities where their wages can get them more for their money. Suddenly, the $15/min wage will be considered unfair and then we will have another socialist city council member screaming how with the $2000/mo rents for a studio that only a $20/min wage is now fair. And, the insanity will continue. Also, low wage earners who share housing are another reason for the city's outrageous living costs. Whereas a landlord could only charge a working family a reasonable amount of rent, a house full of 5-6 people will each be able to pay more rent in total. So, a house that previously rented for $2000/mo will now be renting for $2500-3000/mo because if each person pays $500/mo for the rent, the unscrupulous landlord can rake in more profits, which would push a previously affordable rental out of the price range a family could afford. Portland , Seattle, San Francisco are all suffering now from this new phenomenon.
Some people quote San Francisco as a success story of increased wages. Yeah right!! San Francisco is a basket case and many people live in squalor conditions and can barely scrape by. I remember when I was looking for a studio apartment in that city a while back how people said they were shocked that a single guy would be looking for his own studio. People would ask me what I would do with all that space? Coming from Oregon, where I could have rented a 2 bed apartment for half the price, I was perplexed.
$19.40/hr is more than what many people in the area make. I understand that you're a student but you chose to put yourself in college, the government didn't make you. Most people living off $12/hr probably don't even dream of trying to subsidize a college education. And are you writing that post from a library computer or off the internet on your phone or laptop? If you can afford internet, I don't feel sorry for you.
$19.40 is more then many people make in seattle? what is there like 4 people making that much living under the same roof all chipping in? what a life! yuk! Living off of $12 an hour? Um how? even in the boonies where everything is cheaper, that would be hard to do! Lastly, yes I agree, allot of people these days complain about their financial situation yet fail to realize just how much fat their supporting, like paying for internet. Some will argue they can't live without it, make your choice...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson502
When it all collapses.
And it will collapse!
Quote:
Originally Posted by krieger00
The good old government is making you pay people you hire 15 an hour or you have no business .
The not so good old government can and has been kissing my a** for years now, when I'm laid off from work I collect my unemployment and work a side job for cash under the table and NEVER report the earnings. Why? Because in this day in age not everyone has money growing on a tree out back or a million dollar investment portfolio, so people do what they have to do to.... unemployment barely covers my basic bills while I wait for a call to go back to work, so I subsidize...my way...fraudulently
Quote:
Originally Posted by krieger00
Their is something backwards about a fast food worker making the same or more money than a good school teacher.
Its there not their lol. Yeah this $15 minimum wage thing is flat out retarded. Teachers are the most underpaid people in the country...but then again this country is going backwards... I mean look who is in office nowadays..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrian71
When the minimum wage goes up, people will have more expendable income, so they can buy more stuff, so companies will hire more people to make and sell the stuff. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut
Brilliant.. Karl Marx would agree!
Down with the borgouis!!
And, if everyone made $80,000/yr, everyone would be happy and everyone would have more money to spend!! We need to forcefully redistribute the wealth, even if it means taking people out in the street and shooting them dead. Capitalism is the root of all evil!! Everyone should make the same amount of money! It is not fair that the business owner makes so much money and his workers do not make that much.. Think about it, I mean if the business owner makes $80,000 and his employees make $80,000/yr , just think about how much more spending money everyone has and can all the additional stuff everyone can buy!! Everyone can have a Lexus and a nice water view over Lake Washington!!!! Genius!
Sounds allot like china....
Quote:
Originally Posted by victorianpunk
I'll tell you exactly what will happen:
Ex-Felons, teenagers and even people with high school education will not be able to get jobs in Seattle. No one is going to pay 15/hour to someone without a degree, even if it is to work at McDonald's. And yes, at that pay rate college graduates would be okay working at McDonald's. And at 15/hour, who the hell is going to hire someone who doesn't speak fluent English? Say good-bye to immigrant employees and hello to an even whiter city!
Prices will go up 30-40%...and spare me, SPARE ME and quotes on San Fransisco raising their MW. They had only slight increases in restaurant prices after a 30% increase in the MW, not a 61% increase.
Businesses in Seattle will suffer. No one in Vancouver Washington wines and dines or shops in Vancouver when they can go to Portland right across the bridge with no sales tax. If people in Vancouver go across a bridge to save 6%, what's to stop Seattlites from going across a bridge to save 20%?
And the big winner: BELLEVUE! And Shoreline and Kent. I mean, if I'm in North Seattle and want to order a pizza, am I going to order a pizza from a place in Seattle or Shoreline, with the Shoreline Pizza costing 30% less?
There will be a row of delivery places just outside of Seattle and not a single pizza or Chinese delivery restaurant within five miles of the city limits.
This is going to result in a low, slow decline for Seattle. I'm moving next year, so I don't care anyway.
Here is the future of Seattle with a MW 61% higher than the rest of the state:
LMFAO!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by krieger00
Not all fast food places are big corporate machines. A lot of them are franchise people bought with there own money and it not cheap to do so. I wanted to buy a Dunk in donuts franchise but did not have 250K in cash and 500 k in liquid assets.
I am willing to bet a lot of people will get payed under the table in cash. The government can suck it IMO.
Amen and Amen
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
