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Old 07-26-2014, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
1,716 posts, read 2,024,573 times
Reputation: 4146

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeZeeZee View Post
You think that they should charge you more, so why not go in and explain they're going to have to charge you a lot more than $125 to stop you from breaking the law?
You are so clever, what a brilliant idea. In your hurry to be witty, you miss the point. If the state of Washington is serious about reducing congestion and pollution, they need to up the fine. Otherwise, its not a deterrent. If a law isn't a deterrent, then what is it? A business model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeZeeZee View Post
Yeah, what a racket, fining people for breaking the law!!!

What a bunch of jerks, demanding that carpools be favored so we have lower air pollution, insisting that people stop at stop signs and drive the limit in residential areas so fewer children and pets are hurt, and ensuring that the streets do not turn into huge parking lots.

I tell you what, if only they would let everybody do what is in their own individual short-term best interests with no consequences, life would be a heck of a lot better for a very short period of time.

Then of course it would devolve into a failed state, but whatever, the important thing is that you don't have to face the consequences of your behavior!
Another Rhodes scholar. Surely, even you can see the difference between running a stop sign and driving in the HOA lane. You are probably the same person who posts that we should outlaw knives because they kill people too. In your hurry to spout your opinion, you missed the part about likely paying (ie accepting responsibility). But if it is a flawed law and people are getting off, I want the same treatment. That's hardly selfish. I know of several cases where tertiary traffic laws like this have been found to have a flaw and be unenforceable to those who investigate and push it. I simply wanted to know what others had done...again that doesn't make me selfish, it makes me smart. You probably talk to the police too? i don't because they always try to entrap and twist. Not talking to cops doesn't make me selfish, it makes me smart. Try and learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ImaCritic View Post
If you know it's illegal (Not that ignorance is an excuse for breaking the law) and you're admitting you did it, on purpose in fact, then why try and fight it? Grow up, do us all a favor, and pay your fine.
It has nothing to do with growing up. As explained it has to do with understanding the law, the system, case history and the right way to do things. As I said, I probably will, but only after being fully informed of the options and history and anything else I can find. Ive had two very interesting trains of thought PM'd, both were exactly what i want to know in making a decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondebaerde View Post
I really don't care what you did or did not do, whether deserved or not. Wasn't your question.

If a violation that goes on your record, I suggest hiring a traffic attorney. There are many in the Seattle area with a great track record of having cases dismissed. I've got a guy, used once (2008). He's defended others I know successfully, too.

If not, I got nothing. I pay stuff like that off since it's less than hiring the attorney. The court system is a racket. In fact the whole judicial process is a racket. Unless in on the racket, it's hard to fight. If that's a worthwhile use of your time, give it a go.
Thanks for being able to offer assistance and an objective, and articulate response. I would only hire an attorney if it was a very technical piece of case law that I wanted to build my defense around. But you are right, it is a racket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoBlueInSeattle View Post
So basically, you want free advice on how to get out of a traffic ticket you fully admit your are guilty of and deserve? Sorry bub, that just makes you a prick and an a$$hole.

Pay your fricking ticket like an adult and stop acting like such a pu$$y.
Sounds like you got sand in yours. I'll expalin it to you again because I like to help disadvantaged youths. I want opinions and experience on how others might have dealt with this ticket. Then I'll weigh all that and decide my path. But likely I'll just pay and consider it a toll. But I'll still drive in the HOA lane. BTW, ask your mom or dad to explain the basics of human anatomy, I'm either a prick OR an a$$hole, but cant be both.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
I hate the whole HOV system and believe that it is a major reason for traffic congestion and accidents. Most freeway exits are on the right, and most HOVs are on the left. When the HOV driver comes to their exit they tend to want to wait until the last second to move over. Now they have to find a break where they can get across both lanes. They end up having to cut in front of people to get over. The drivers who are cut off have to slam their brakes, and now we have a big slowdown, if not an accident. And this process is repeated over an over, as long as traffic is even mildly heavy.

Personally I hate getting pulled over, so I wouldn't cheat, but if someone can cheat a bad law and get away with it, more power to them.

According to this an HOV violation does impact your auto insurance (for 3 years), so it's going to cost you more than $125
HOV (Carpool) Lane | Zim Law

I would suggest calling your insurance agent and asking how much your rate will increase over an HOV violation.
Thanks for your objectivity and non-emotional response. A lot of kids like GoBlue get all twisted and cant speak without profanity and being crude when faced with something that confuses them. the insurance issue is a big one and i had assumed it didn't count, but I better make sure as that is a major factor. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkpoe View Post
I have to agree with getting a lawyer if you want to fight it. Friends tried doing it themselves and way too many end up losing. Only those with a lawyer fared better. The judges here are too temperamental and I've seen them dismiss cases that should not be dismissed and go hard-core for others that are essentially a non-issue.

At least to the OP's credit, he didn't use a blow up doll or his blonde haired dog to get by on the HOV. Now those people really annoy me.
Haha, well to be honest I have considered it. Of course I considered smoking crack once too. Luckily what we consider is often overridden by common sense and logic. Thanks for the feedback.

 
Old 07-27-2014, 01:42 AM
 
Location: West Coast
1,889 posts, read 2,183,251 times
Reputation: 4345
Quote:
Originally Posted by MmeZeeZee View Post
Yeah, what a racket, fining people for breaking the law!!!

What a bunch of jerks, demanding that carpools be favored so we have lower air pollution, insisting that people stop at stop signs and drive the limit in residential areas so fewer children and pets are hurt, and ensuring that the streets do not turn into huge parking lots.

I tell you what, if only they would let everybody do what is in their own individual short-term best interests with no consequences, life would be a heck of a lot better for a very short period of time.

Then of course it would devolve into a failed state, but whatever, the important thing is that you don't have to face the consequences of your behavior!
There you have it, the stateists make an appearance right on cue. It's a racket becuase of how INSANELY and unreasonably strict the police are in WA as a whole, FAR more strict than the majority of other states. I seriously got a ticket for 3mph over going DOWNHILL, hell you can get tickets for 1mph over in the Seattle area, but go ahead and defend that as well. The "California" stop I referenced irritated me because I did stop, for approximately 1.5 seconds and there was NO ONE else around, but that wasn't good enough for our nanny .govt overlords. It's a good thing the police around here are cracking down on the important stuff like 3mph over felons and California-stopping mass-murderers, because you know, less serious crimes solve themselves. My previous statement was a bit of sarcasm, but I can tell yours is not. Typical of people around here.....
 
Old 07-27-2014, 02:07 AM
 
1,359 posts, read 2,467,340 times
Reputation: 1221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkpoe View Post
I have to agree with getting a lawyer if you want to fight it. Friends tried doing it themselves and way too many end up losing. Only those with a lawyer fared better. The judges here are too temperamental and I've seen them dismiss cases that should not be dismissed and go hard-core for others that are essentially a non-issue.

At least to the OP's credit, he didn't use a blow up doll or his blonde haired dog to get by on the HOV. Now those people really annoy me.
The legal and judicial community tends to hold a dim view of pro se (self-represented) persons in nearly any court. Judges, in particular, tend to have prejudices as pro se persons are sometimes perceived to be a burden on the court.

Long story short: if you want to fight the ticket, get a lawyer.
 
Old 07-27-2014, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Seattle
1,938 posts, read 3,900,619 times
Reputation: 4660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakscsd View Post
A $125 fine is not enough pain for most people in this area. With many people making well over $100K, this amounts to just over 2 hours of work. So if you gained 2 hours or more between tickets, you were ahead. Not to mention the hassle of sitting in stopped traffic.
This is certainly subjective but I hope I never get to the point in my life where I consider paying $1 per minute for the privilege of driving illegally in an HOV lane.
 
Old 07-27-2014, 02:37 PM
 
634 posts, read 892,148 times
Reputation: 852
Was it truly the HOV lane or the express lanes? There's a difference. People interpret the express lanes as HOV only but they are not, and nowhere does it say HOV only except for a few of the on/off ramps. You can verify this on dot website.

A friend was "reported" as a violator and successfully fought it.
 
Old 07-27-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Wallace, Idaho
3,353 posts, read 6,641,439 times
Reputation: 3589
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakscsd View Post
Haha, well to be honest I have considered it. Of course I considered smoking crack once too. Luckily what we consider is often overridden by common sense and logic. Thanks for the feedback.
Hahaha! You have to forgive the statists who kowtow to every single rule that's passed in Olympia and D.C., because, you know, government is always good and benevolent and only wants to protect you for your own good. And yes, some people can't discern between laws that actually promote road safety and protect me from other drivers and other drivers from me, and nuisance laws that exist for revenue collection only.

I've gotten a couple of seat belt tickets. I'd fight them, because they're nothing more than a revenue-collection racket that have nothing to do with public safety. But I don't have the the time or the energy to bother with hiring a lawyer and going to court, where everyone is going to take the state's side anyway. The deck is stacked, and if you want to break the law -- no matter how stupid the law is -- you pretty much have to pay the fine and suffer the consequences.

I tried it once back in Michigan, where a cop stopped me for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, on a side street in a small town where there was no other traffic around anywhere. Going to court was a complete waste of my time and money. After I tried to fight a parking ticket a few years later in Virginia, which I got for being over my time when I wasn't, I just threw up my hands and decided there's nothing you can do. If the state wants a cut of your revenue, they'll take it one way or another.
 
Old 07-27-2014, 03:14 PM
 
35,095 posts, read 50,971,715 times
Reputation: 62660
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yakscsd View Post
I recently received a ticket for solo driving in HOV lane and just wondered if anyone had successfully defended against this violation. For those who are now going to say what an idiot I am for driving there, and how much I deserve the ticket, save your breath. I know its illegal and I made the decision to ignore that and take a chance in favor of saving some time. I'll likely just pay the fine and look at it as a HOV pass that saved me a lot of time for a very reasonable $125/year. Honestly, if WSP & WDOT really wanted to eliminate abuse of the HOV lane they would ask legislators to get series about the fine. In CA its $500 and that would be enough to stop most people, myself included. A $125 fine is not enough pain for most people in this area. With many people making well over $100K, this amounts to just over 2 hours of work. So if you gained 2 hours or more between tickets, you were ahead. Not to mention the hassle of sitting in stopped traffic. I have a couple of lines of defense that I could pursue, but before I make a decision I just wondered if anyone else had ever successfully got out of one.


A very good example of "more money than ....", well I would guess you know the old cliche'

Just stay out of the danged lane you are not supposed to be in and if you are pressed for time, leave 20 minutes earlier so you are not compelled to break the law.
 
Old 07-27-2014, 05:15 PM
 
Location: Seattle Area
1,716 posts, read 2,024,573 times
Reputation: 4146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garethe View Post
Was it truly the HOV lane or the express lanes? A friend was "reported" as a violator and successfully fought it.
Good point, but it was HOV. I'd love to know the basis of his defense if you know. if he was just reported, I could see that being easily beat. Mine was from a LEO, which would be harder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilkoot View Post
This is certainly subjective but I hope I never get to the point in my life where I consider paying $1 per minute for the privilege of driving illegally in an HOV lane.
Yep, it is sad but its also the reality of living in a city with some of the worst congestion in the country. Its actually far less than $1/minute. But you get the idea. If you worked as an hourly worker for $25/hour, if it saved you 4 hours you were even, 5 hours and you were ahead of the game. Its almost the same as being PAID to be in the HOV lane at that point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSD610 View Post
A very good example of "more money than ....", well I would guess you know the old cliche'

Just stay out of the danged lane you are not supposed to be in and if you are pressed for time, leave 20 minutes earlier so you are not compelled to break the law.
No, that's not correct. I can afford the ticket with no consequence to my daily life. But that's not the point of my question. IN fact I'd be the first to advocate for an increase in the ticket if they really want to limit the use to authorized vehicles. of course they don't want to, they want the repeat revenue. The Government IS NOT your friend. They are NOT here to look out for you.

Its not about leaving early and my guess is you are not from around here? In the Seattle system, one small accident, heck even one police traffic stop, can bring the system to a halt. All can look well when you leave, but something happens and now you are looking at a 2 hour commute. How does leaving 20 minutes early help that? You can CHOOSE to either sit in traffic inching along and get to work late or you can take a shot at using the HOV lane to get around the problem, perhaps for as little as a few hundred yards. Is that the worst thing in the world? Plus, violation of this crime doesn't put anyone else at risk as would most other traffic laws.

I don't know if you are a gambler, but I am. And so its simply a bet that you wont get caught, and I usually win. This time I didn't and will likely have to pay. But just like in Vegas, I'll still sit down to play again.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,813 posts, read 5,599,629 times
Reputation: 4004
I find it interesting that I and many others can be following the rules and stuck at a stand-still in rush hour traffic, while some people think they are more important than the rest of us, moving over into the HOV lane and speeding past as single occupants because they are in a hurry. As if we aren't all in a hurry? Their time is more valuable than mine? I do wish they would step up enforcement of this law as I see it ALL THE TIME. I agree with the OP that the fine really needs to be raised- maybe to $500 to really deter people from doing this.
 
Old 07-28-2014, 02:52 PM
 
719 posts, read 981,479 times
Reputation: 1854
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
I find it interesting that I and many others can be following the rules and stuck at a stand-still in rush hour traffic, while some people think they are more important than the rest of us, moving over into the HOV lane and speeding past as single occupants because they are in a hurry. As if we aren't all in a hurry? Their time is more valuable than mine? I do wish they would step up enforcement of this law as I see it ALL THE TIME. I agree with the OP that the fine really needs to be raised- maybe to $500 to really deter people from doing this.
Have you ever approached an area of construction where a highway narrows to one lane? Inevitably, roughly 20-25% of the drivers will ignore the slow lane and drive all the way until the 'faster' lane ends, then ram their way into slow traffic. I never, ever let them in, to the point where I am more than willing to have a car accident to head them off. But it doesn't matter, because someone else will let them in.

These cheaters therefore present a special duality of narcissism and arrogance -- they are both in 'too much of a hurry' to be bothered with lines, and they operate under an umbrella assumption that stupid (re: 'kindly,' but let's go with stupid, too) folks will aid them in completing their transgression. Through and through, they're just bad human beings, though I'd argue that the people who help them out are quite nearly as awful ("which is worse, the fool or the fool who follows him?").

A lone individual driving in the HOV lane is the same personality type, relying on the 'I'm better than you/thanks for being too stupid/kind to report me' equation. The only difference, of course, is that the police are actually attempting to regulate this behavior, and thus the OP and his simpleton's thread of 'help me get out of my wrongdoing!' That people are still attempting to assist him just brings the entire pattern full circle.

Last edited by PrincessoftheCape; 07-28-2014 at 03:18 PM..
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