I dont recommend Seattle as your home (Des Moines, Mercer Island: 2014, school)

[scirocco22]

Well, my last post here on this thread because I don't want to get accused of personal attacks.

I'm not throwing a hissy fit or getting my feelings hurt. I'm just questioning making sweeping generalizations. I already said I left the Seattle area because I didn't like living there. I didn't leave because of the people. I have many close friends in Seattle. I met hundreds if not thousands of warm friendly people there. I left for other reasons.

Like I say, I don't understand how you can people can say "all" people from a certain area behave the same way.

Sure, there are a lot of passive-agressive people in Seattle but that doesn't mean that all are.

And I also said that we all have the right to express our opinions. You expressed yours and I expressed mine.

I also admitted that the majority here will agree with you. That should make you happy.

[seattlerain]

So we are over-groomed...but don't know how to dress?

[Negotiator75]

Originally Posted by seattlerain

So we are over-groomed...but don't know how to dress?

Dressed down implied a sort of "grunge" style I suppose.

[JDTD]

Originally Posted by Negotiator75

I dont understand these Seattle people, they always get hissy and hurt feelings.

You see alot of this stuff in Seattle, the men here are very delicate, they seem to be very fragile. They tend to use hand lotion, clip their nails all the time, carry a hair brush, etc. They even carry man purses! Far from what you see in Philly or NYC or Boston. But hey, I am not saying its bad to over-groom, its just more than most people are used to seeing. By the way these are the same people that flip you off on the highways.

Truth is that unless you are making TONS of money and your job gives you lots of freedom, forget it, it will be hard to make it. Best advice for anyone is to CAREFULLY read all these posts. Hear what people have to say about the city. You will see that Seattle is OK for visiting & vacation. But for the most part people with kids live here as a mistake and end up moving away - as I am going to in 6 months.

How many agree?

You hit the nail on the head (IMO). I totally agree. There's 1 vote for you.

[pwright1]

Negotiator who's getting a hissy fit. Obviously you don't like it here and thank god you're doing something about it. I'm doing something about it too. I'm staying. I love it here. My friends, single and married with kids love it here and will continue to live here. We all know Seattle is not the perfect place. What place really is? Since you think Ohio and Pennsylvania are a better fit for you since they're so much cheaper then the good life for you is waiting.

[kilgore trout]

Originally Posted by Negotiator75

Since you mention crime, there is more crime in Seattle than in Pittsburgh for that matter.

You continually mention Seattle's crime problem, but it's not a particularly well founded criticism.

Seattle, when the size of the city is taken into account, is listed as one of the 10 safest cities in the US (http://www.morganquitno.com/cit04pop.htm#CITIES)

All cities the size of Seattle have crime, especially close to downtown.

You've also noted the discomfort of trying to raise children (home ownership, top schools, day care, great neighborhoods, etc) on less than 75K total household income. I also think this would be difficult to do in any US city the size of Seattle. Living in the nicest houses, safest areas, and sending your kids to the best schools is simply not cheap in big cities - that's not a problem unique to Seattle.

Based on everything you've posted here, I have a hard time thinking that you should really be looking to live in a major city. Many suburbs offer affordable housing, safe neighborhoods, and good schools. They aren't nearly as exciting as major cities, but that's the choice you have to make.

I realize that you have many other personal issues that you dislike about Seattle, but your criticisms of crime, housing cost, schools, and overall expense are more related to living in a city and less unique problems to Seattle.

BTW, since you mention how low housing costs are in Pittsburgh and how excited you are to leave the slum that is Seattle to get there, I thought you would like to see some thoughts from a similar post in the Pittsburgh forum discouraging people from moving there:

certain citizens of Pittsburgh believe that their city is great and everything is turning around. It's not. It's actually getting worse. Property taxes and crime are high. The schools are terrible. Parking fees are the highest in the country. The high paying jobs are located in outlying counties. The city is facing a financial bankruptcy within the next few years. The population numbers are dwindling. Pittsburgh is still a Rust Belt city. (We can't even get family and friends to go to Pittsburgh when they come to visit because they think it's a slum.)

Let's see: I could've stayed in the Pittsburgh area and remained unemployed, or I could've moved someplace where I don't have to beg for a job. I chose the latter... If you want to have any semblance of a successful future, I urge you to leave Western Pennsylvania. You will not regret it.

Weather is very iffy if you like sunshine, High Taxes, Declining population, rather poor buisness climate, aging infrastructure, aging population, has become a increasingly 'trashy' city, very low turn out for local elections, old boy local political control, fewer and fewer flights out of it's airport, extensive bus transit system, lesser rapid or light rail development, increasing troubles with public education in finances, labor disputes, and quality of education.

There simply are no good jobs here. I cannot afford to raise my kids by myself on what I get paid (even if I move to another part of town)--and there are no better paying jobs in my field.

I should have left 10 years ago, but I didn't. Do I regret it? Absolutely. I have finally been driven to it by the fact that we haven't had a raise in 5 years (despite consistently scoring 98% and above on performance evaluations). That taxes are going through the roof. That the price of food is outrageous--go to Virginia, the Carolinas, and Florida. You'll pay half the price for food as you do here. And let's not talk about gas or anything else...

Even if I did stay here, I fully expect that my children will leave. There is simply no reason for them to stay. There's nothing here, and there won't be for many, many years to come.

My advice is don't move there unless you have already secured a high paying job. You'll find that housing is less then in other metro areas but everything else costs just the same as the DC area.

I have to say, groceries here are FAR more expensive. Also, the taxes here are absolutely awful. We are paying $300-400 more per month in taxes than we were in Texas!!!

I guess the grass is always greener...

j-

[Negotiator75]

Originally Posted by pwright1

Negotiator who's getting a hissy fit. Obviously you don't like it here and thank god you're doing something about it. I'm doing something about it too. I'm staying. I love it here. My friends, single and married with kids love it here and will continue to live here. We all know Seattle is not the perfect place. What place really is? Since you think Ohio and Pennsylvania are a better fit for you since they're so much cheaper then the good life for you is waiting.

No doubt about what you say and thank you. But I do want to be bold and ask you if your friends make more than $75,000 either single or combined income. I am trying to prove a point that in order to live a good & happy life in Seattle, raise a family, there should be a guideline for people to use as a minimum income.

This is all to help the reader make a factual decision before moving to Seattle.

How does this sound as bottom line salary to make it here:

$50,000 minimum for single person, maybe live in a cheap apartment - but get to go out all the time & party
$75,000 if you have kids - tight living but making it
$120,000 if you have kids, want a house in a good neighborhood, have a little left to spend
$200,000 to be almost worry free

[Negotiator75]

Originally Posted by kilgore trout

You continually mention Seattle's crime problem, but it's not a particularly well founded criticism.

Seattle is #6 in the United States for Auto Theft

[41Willys]

Originally Posted by Negotiator75

Seattle is #6 in the United States for Auto Theft

New Jersey has the highest auto insurance rates in the country. Newark made the top of that auto theft list a few years back.

When you have a high dense population like Seattle, that highest educated city stat kinda falls to the waste side. The bad apples ruin it for everyone!

[kilgore trout]

Originally Posted by Negotiator75

Seattle is #6 in the United States for Auto Theft

OK, so pick one random crime statistic. Lets find the #1 city in jaywalking. How about public intox? Can we deem those cities unsafe for living due to rampant crime?

If I'm looking at crime statistics when choosing to move my family to a city, I'm looking at (probably in this order): 1) Rape, 2) Murder, 3) Aggravated Assault, 4) Home Burglary, 5) Personal Theft.

Auto theft plays a role, obviously, no one wants their car stolen. At the same time, cars get stolen anywhere you live. It's a risk of owning one. Be smart about where you park. Have insurance. It's pretty low on the crime totem pole.

I see you've completely disregarded the fact that Seattle is one of the top 10 safest big cities in the country, and all posts about the problems with lovely Pittsburgh, PA. How convenient.

j-