Seattle myths dispelled after first visit. (Spokane, Tacoma: fit in, cliquey, house)

[ender554]

so I just returned home after my first visit to Seattle and I have to say the urban legends I heard to be true, simply weren't.

1. The so called Seattle freeze. Our first night there sitting in a bar, about twenty minutes into our evening we were joined by three Seattle locals and hung out talking until close. The second night, within five minutes I was engaged by a man who lived on a boat in Ballard and we talked for a couple hours until I had to leave. Night three another table of locals insisted on befriending us. I don't know if I'm just immune but the Seattle freeze seems to be very much a myth.

2. Hoards of homeless people.
what are you guys talking about? Sure there are homeless but no more than any other major city. I certainly wasn't dodging them all day.

3. Traffic.
traffic is fine. Of anyone has ever driven in a large city Seattle may even be a welcome change. You want traffic try san Fran, Oakland, Los Angeles, or even san Diego.. Your roads are schizophrenic at best buy traffic was no big deal.


all in all I had a great time and I think these myths are all perpetuated by those who moved here from small town America right after college and have their own poor social skills

[RotseCherut]

Originally Posted by ender554

so I just returned home after my first visit to Seattle and I have to say the urban legends I heard to be true, simply weren't.

1. The so called Seattle freeze. Our first night there sitting in a bar, about twenty minutes into our evening we were joined by three Seattle locals and hung out talking until close. The second night, within five minutes I was engaged by a man who lived on a boat in Ballard and we talked for a couple hours until I had to leave. Night three another table of locals insisted on befriending us. I don't know if I'm just immune but the Seattle freeze seems to be very much a myth.

What bar did you go to?? And, you think going to a bar one or two nights on a short trip to Seattle will represent your entire time in a city? Being an out-of-towner, generally results in a better reception anywhere you are. Seattle's freeze depends on neighborhood, I will say. The farther out neighborhoods are a bit friendlier , like Ballard, Wallingsford, Greenwood, etc.. However, places like Capitol Hill or many other of the uppity neighborhoods will generally be very cliquey and pretentious. Whether it is a breed of yuppie pretentiousness or hipster pretentiousness.

I love it though when people assess an entire community based on a few visits to a bar.

It is also depends on your demenaor. Are you a hipster, full of tattoos and piercings, wearing bizarre mismatched clothes? You will find that it is much easier to warm up to people in Seattle if that is your appearance. My theory is that people look and dress in this way just so they can more easily fit in with people and be accepted. The Seattle Freeze is encountered more by normal Joes who aren't qualified to be accepted within the "Hipster Scene".

Originally Posted by ender554

2. Hoards of homeless people.
what are you guys talking about? Sure there are homeless but no more than any other major city. I certainly wasn't dodging them all day.

Depends where you go.. There is a lot of homeless brats who live in University Ave and Pioneer Square. In fact, the homeless in U District is out of control and people have literally setup tent townships and live in front of the businesses, where they proceed to do drugs in public, beg for money, and get drunk and glutton themselves on food and leave their garbage everywhere, while littering and stinking up the whole street. This is the product of "liberal utopia", where being mean to the poor, helpless and homeless people is equated to Nazism.

Originally Posted by ender554

3. Traffic.
traffic is fine. Of anyone has ever driven in a large city Seattle may even be a welcome change. You want traffic try san Fran, Oakland, Los Angeles, or even san Diego.. Your roads are schizophrenic at best buy traffic was no big deal.

Take a trip from Seattle to Tacoma or from Seattle to Bellevue or vice versa at Rush Hour.. Where exactly did you drive? I never thought Seattle's traffic was much worse than most any other city, except within the city, itself. The traffic in the downtown area is pretty gnarly, but it is not uncommon with any high density city. Try taking a trip from West Seattle to Ballard at rush hour. You might as well take a plane.

[Cinema Cat]

Originally Posted by ender554

Our first night there sitting in a bar, about twenty minutes into our evening we were joined by three Seattle locals and hung out talking until close. The second night, within five minutes I was engaged by a man who lived on a boat in Ballard and we talked for a couple hours until I had to leave. Night three another table of locals insisted on befriending us. I don't know if I'm just immune but the Seattle freeze seems to be very much a myth.

You don't describe yourself. Are you a young, attractive woman?

These locals who insisted on befriending you, were they men?

Young, attractive women will attract men in any city, for obvious reasons. They're hoping to get lucky.

The theory of the Seattle Freeze is largely about the difficulty that (mostly ordinary) people have in making genuine friendships.

[Seattle4321]

The seattle freeze isn't real!!!

[CityWok]

Originally Posted by ender554

3. Traffic.
traffic is fine. Of anyone has ever driven in a large city Seattle may even be a welcome change. You want traffic try san Fran, Oakland, Los Angeles, or even san Diego.. Your roads are schizophrenic at best buy traffic was no big deal.

Depends how you look at it. I mean, Seattle is consistently ranked in the top 10 cities of having some of the worst traffic in the US, occasionally outranking LA, SF, and NY on some metrics (which I find hard to believe, but..) who can I trust? Someone who's visited the city briefly, or a group of people who've analyzed and compared it to other cities objectively?

The consensus seems to say that traffic here is *not* "fine" but thanks for tryin'

[HuskyDawg]

I sit in an hour & 20-40 minutes of traffic every work day to go less than 20 miles. Live here a while and then talk out your a$$ about the traffic. And once the viaduct comes down it's going to be worse as the tunnel decreases capacity. Sorry to be grumpy but that pisses me off. The Seattle freeze I agree with you about, I have friends from WA including my girlfriend. And the homeless situation isn't any worse than any other big city, but you probably weren't in the areas where a lot of them are camped. Including the homeless camp "Nickelsville" that moves around to different neighborhoods.

[FrankSpencer]

Originally Posted by Seattle4321

The seattle freeze isn't real!!!

agreed 100% - an urban myth if ever I've seen one

[AKtoWAtoUT]

This sounds a lot like my impression of Seattle before I moved there vs. after I moved there.

I grew up in the Spokane area and went to EWU so my friends/family and I would routinely take vacations/trips to Seattle. I thought it was the greatest place in the world from visiting 1-2 times per summer. I still think it's the greatest place in the world, but it was different than I thought.

1. The Freeze. You described the BEGINNING of the freeze perfectly. The old 2005 Seattle Times piece even said that people will strike up conversation and be friendly... it's what happens afterward that allegedly differentiates Seattle from everywhere else.

It's when you've been talking to someone you just met at a bar/party/whatever for 20+ minutes, the convo has been fun...

other person: "...yeah, we're all going the the Mariners game tomorrow afternoon! I'm excited! We even have some extra tickets."

you: "nice! Like I was saying earlier, I love baseball and I've been a huge Mariners fan since I learned what baseball is!"

other person: "SEEYA!" *turns and walks away like you just offered them Ebola*

A buddy of mine that moved from Spokane after I did quickly began commenting on how strange people were socially. After a couple months I began to notice it too... then after I moved I found this board and read about the Freeze and it all made sense. I didn't have so much of a problem as I still made a couple friends, but I definitely left several social situations shaking my head thinking "whaaaat theeeee......"

When I moved there I had no idea anything like the freeze existed, and I discovered it on my own without ever hearing the words "Seattle Freeze" or anything along those lines.

The basis of the Freeze is that people will be nice and even reach out to you for conversation, but these people have ZERO desire to actually be friends, no matter how similar you are to them.


2. The Homeless. In a lot of ways I think this issue is overblown, but there are areas with scary amounts of homeless. I noticed them a lot downtown (3rd/4th streets/Pioneer Square of course) and in Ballard. In Ballard they are mostly just sleeping/chilling from what I saw walking around there almost every day to get to work. Downtown they are more aggressive/unstable and it sucks.


3. Traffic. It sounds like you stopped in for a weekend. When I first moved to Seattle I didn't have any issues with traffic. I was living on Beacon Hill and worked in West Seattle and Factoria. Sometimes getting on I-5 just south of downtown was bothersome, but not that bad.

Then I moved to West Seattle and had to drive up to Ballard and back 3-5 times per week. Those were dark times. I remember sitting on the WA-99 onramp from the WS bridge for over 45 minutes without moving several times. Coming back home on Elliott ave from Ballard to 99 could take 45 minutes, plus the 20 or so actually sitting on 99. For training I had to go from Beacon to Redmond... that took about 1.5-2 hours. I highly doubt Seattle traffic would be a "welcome change" to anyone.

[Gardyloo]

For my sins I've lived in and/or still travel frequently to a number of cities where complaining about the traffic is a local pastime - LA, SF, NYC, Boston, Philly, London (and I drive in those cities too, yes, even NYC and London.)

My reaction to Seattle traffic? Meh. I live north of the UW and have to go to some relatives' house in Mt. Baker a couple of times a week during the evening rush, when the I-5 express lanes are running northbound and when the UWMC is having a shift change and/or all the day tripper students/staff are heading home.

When the freeway is wide open it takes me around 20 minutes to get to their house. When it's packed, maybe 35, worst case 45.

If I were doing a comparable drive in LA on the San Diego Fwy or Hollywood Fwy - probably an hour. On the Bayshore Fwy on the SF Peninsula? Probably the same. On the BQE? Fuggedaboutit. The Schuykill Expressway? Are you kidding me?

Yeah, if you come from Boise or Anchorage, Seattle traffic is going to be annoying. So don't move in the first place, or just move back, or move closer to your job if you're here already, and buy a Segway. Or just put up with one of the costs of living in a big American city in the 21st century.

[HuskyDawg]

My reaction to Seattle traffic? Meh. I live north of the UW and have to go to some relatives' house in Mt. Baker a couple of times a week during the evening rush, when the I-5 express lanes are running northbound and when the UWMC is having a shift change and/or all the day tripper students/staff are heading home.

It's all relative to where you are heading and what stretch. Why not compare Everett to Seattle commute to any commute in California?