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I say this as someone who is *firmly* entrenched in tech.
Trust me, the vast majority of them (particularly the 'softies) aren't making 6 figures. Your 2 biggest tech companies in the area (Microsoft and Amazon) each have their own demons. At Amazon yes, you'll make a fortune, but you will never be able to spend it because you'll be working all the time. Microsoft is filled with H1-b visa workers who make 30-40 cents on the dollar. Most of them are making 70K a year....if that. There are programme managers that are bringing in the bank, but Microsoft isn't the great shakes it used to be.
You're wrong.
Your first post with CD was not all that long ago when you were first asking about Seattle, but the salaries you have been quoting are incorrect.
entry level software engineers at all of the big tech companies are pulling in over 6 figures. this is for a person fresh out of college.
there are many software engineers who make 70k but they aren't working at the top tech firms. at the top tech firms, there are engineers who are not software engineers (think systems engineers, test engineers, etc.) who start at under 6 figures.
First, Glassdoor encourages people to list their total comp, not their base salary.
Second, Glassdoor is notorious for people inflating their salaries for the purposes of seeming more wealthy than they are. I've seen it time and again at my company, where people post their salaries and I look at their job title and know *exactly* what they're making...and know they added 20 grand to the number.
The average Eddie B salary for a manager is 73K a year. It's easy to find this number. It's a far cry from 100K+. Oberto is a small company. Costco attempts to recruit me pretty regularly, and their salary range not only isn't in line of being interesting to me, it's not even in line with the region.
Lastly, if you work for Starbuck's, I'd highly recommend you actually go down and spend some time with your IT/operations people. How it is that I know more about how advanced your org is in terms of technology and what you're doing than you do when you actually work there is pretty sad. Starbuck's gets *all* the cool toys before they even come out.
Glassdoor: It was pretty accurate for me for my last few jobs, and was actually very low compared to what I got at Starbucks. Plus, it definitely breaks out base and bonus/stocks: Starbucks Senior Brand Manager Salaries | Glassdoor
Eddie/Oberto/Costco: I guess the discrepancies at these companies we're seeing is based on our respective functions and/or the companies/compensation we were at, during that point in time. Normal part of recruiting.
Starbucks: I'm not arguing how advanced Starbucks is in terms of technology, I know exactly how good we are at it. However, if you read our quarterly/annual statements, you'll know that our revenue growth (record high last quarter) was driven by new store openings and food/beverage innovation. Just because a company is really great at one particular function doesn't mean that function is the main driver for the company. If a big CPG happens to be awesome at HR, that doesn't mean they're an HR company...they're still a marketing-driven company.
I work at MSFT and can tell you that entry level engineers straight out of school are easily offered $100k base salary last I checked (over 1.5 years ago, probably closer to $110k now), never mind stock grants, benefits, and all that. You are quoting salaries (70k) from like a decade+ ago.
Your H1-b's and dash trash are not making 6 figures. I know this for absolute, 100%, positive fact.
Your H1-b's and dash trash are not making 6 figures. I know this for absolute, 100%, positive fact.
There is a sample size of 5,238 Software Development Engineers that work for MSFT on Glassdoor. The average is ~105k and the lowest reported number out of a sample size of over five thousand is 78k.
You are basically claiming that 5,238 people are over reporting their salary and not a single one of them is "honest" in the reporting of a 70k number. Despite the fact that Glassdoor pretty clearly breaks down the numbers point by point in the survey.
Either the sample of 5,238 people are misreporting the data or you are wrong. I wonder which it is?
Your H1-b's and dash trash are not making 6 figures. I know this for absolute, 100%, positive fact.
Actually I'm an H1-B and I make more than 100k, and not just by a little either.
"Dash trash" or contingent staff don't typically make 100k but they are generally less skilled and generally work on less critical responsibilities - at least in the engineering groups (which is all I have experience with). It has always been so - contingent staff do sometimes end up getting full time positions based on skill, business need, and basically their market demand: if they are good they will find a full time job that pays more - be it at Microsoft or otherwise. But that's nothing new and is a general truism.
Frankly, at this point you are just coming across as bitter.
There is a sample size of 5,238 Software Development Engineers that work for MSFT on Glassdoor. The average is ~105k and the lowest reported number out of a sample size of over five thousand is 78k.
You are basically claiming that 5,238 people are over reporting their salary and not a single one of them is "honest" in the reporting of a 70k number. Despite the fact that Glassdoor pretty clearly breaks down the numbers point by point in the survey.
Either the sample of 5,238 people are misreporting the data or you are wrong. I wonder which it is?
Being in tech, and local, I know many, MANY local Microsofties, both current as well as from the past that have gone on to more lucrative roles at Amazon or Tableau (mostly past, as all but a handful of the stragglers have bailed in the last year). The guys I knew who were there for about 10 years and had senior programmer titles had gotten up into the 120 range, it seemed. I know 2 on H1-b, and they whinge consistently that they only make about 65 when everybody else makes significantly more. The orange badgers are all over the map, but seem to be just doing the meat grinder whilst waiting for something more lucrative to come along. Oh, and did I bother mentioning I'm living with a senior recruiter for the company, who says your claim that they're mostly pulling down 6 figures is full of *#$!? I'm reasonably sure she knows better than most what the wages are.
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Actually I'm an H1-B and I make more than 100k, and not just by a little either.
Then you would be an incredibly unique little snowflake.
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Frankly, at this point you are just coming across as bitter.
I've got news for ya, man - I make about double the regional average for what I do as a result of being at the very top of my field. Bitterness has nothing to do with it - it has to do with reality.
Being in tech, and local, I know many, MANY local Microsofties, both current as well as from the past that have gone on to more lucrative roles at Amazon or Tableau (mostly past, as all but a handful of the stragglers have bailed in the last year). The guys I knew who were there for about 10 years and had senior programmer titles had gotten up into the 120 range, it seemed. I know 2 on H1-b, and they whinge consistently that they only make about 65 when everybody else makes significantly more. The orange badgers are all over the map, but seem to be just doing the meat grinder whilst waiting for something more lucrative to come along. Oh, and did I bother mentioning I'm living with a senior recruiter for the company, who says your claim that they're mostly pulling down 6 figures is full of *#$!? I'm reasonably sure she knows better than most what the wages are.
Then you would be an incredibly unique little snowflake.
I've got news for ya, man - I make about double the regional average for what I do as a result of being at the very top of my field. Bitterness has nothing to do with it - it has to do with reality.
I registered because the misinformation is a little bothersome.
I'm one of 5 newly hired level 59's and 60's in Redmond in the last ~4 months. I've also know H1-B's from Sweden, Germany, India, China and Croatia. Between all of us, the lowest base is 110 and the highest is 127 (60's all above 117) - not including benefits, time off, vacation, stock award and cash sign on.
To give some folks perspective, this is the entry-level engineering "Service/Software Engineer I" tile you see on Indeed.com and other places. Nothing secret about this.
When I was "Dash Trash" for the last 4 years, I made anywhere from 70k to 105k as my skillset progressed and re-neg'd contracts with new groups. This is the story for the overwhelming majority of other contractors I've interacted with.. Everyone seems to be comfortable to discuss wages when they are contractors.. As long as you aren't in the same group
Entry-Level and Mid-Level Microsoft, no, *any* engineers in IT, Operations, Service, Software Development, etc who make less than 6 figures are folks with little experience or who can't negotiate a proper salary out of a paper bag.
Senior "Anything" at a big corp, especially MS or Amazon, pulling in less than ~150 is the classic sign of level or career stagnation. Bet you anything they stayed with the same company, organization within the company or role for over 3 years, which is suicide in Tech.
The more you know...
Summary;
Most new hires and progressing, career folks in Tech in the area, especially Engineering, make more than you'd realize. It's about promoting yourself, growing, experience, timing and significant levels of luck along the way.
...
Which you would know, seeing as how you're top of field in whatever you are doing.
Last edited by darkerive; 09-09-2015 at 01:33 PM..
Reason: Added a final line / PS
I registered because the misinformation is a little bothersome.
I'm one of 5 newly hired level 59's and 60's in Redmond in the last ~4 months. I've also know H1-B's from Sweden, Germany, India, China and Croatia. Between all of us, the lowest base is 110 and the highest is 127 (60's all above 117) - not including benefits, time off, vacation, stock award and cash sign on.
Summary;
Most new hires and progressing, career folks in Tech in the area, especially Engineering, make more than you'd realize. It's about promoting yourself, growing, experience, timing and significant levels of luck along the way.
Good comments, from someone actually involved. Good first post.
The company is aware, I believe, that salaries vary a bit (supposedly) across organizations/divisions, leading to a little subjectivity on what is fair/typical, depending on what group you're in. I think they are trying to "One Microsoft" some of that delta away, btw.
In various roles, tech to PgM, across many years, I've made good to great money. Higher-end vendor roles should really be salary, working directly for the firm(s) delivering to various clients. A lot of boutique consultancies hire only those with 10+ years in the business, thus salaries and bill rates are higher.
My vendors these days are PM fours and fives (IV, V) and are well-paid. They deliver equally impressive value, for the most part. My org needs people with depth and breadth to handle ambiguity, leverage their contacts, and learn fast under changing conditions. That comes with time and experience. Yes, the bulk of us are "Sr." level with very few exceptions, and that may be peculiar to the nature of our org. The vendors and FTEs are delivering at L62-64, leadership is L65 under a Sr. Director who is presumably a level or two up on that.
Worked with a guy a while, some years back, who was angry and bitter all of us "new guys" (relatively speaking, new to the org at-least) were higher level and money than him. So he claimed. Speaking of career stagnation: he really shouldn't have even voiced that to me; I recall being speechless. Then again, spending more than ten years at one firm is a bit questionable to me, too. He departed the team, to what I sincerely hope are greener pastures and I haven't looked him up since. That kind of thinking should be a call to personal career-action, not a whine.
Glass Door was quite accurate on Sr. level role salaries, bonus, options, etc. btw. last I checked, years ago. More data = more representative averages, smoothing the outliers.
I have worked as Dash Trash before and have a good feel for the technology scene in the greater Seattle area.
* The term "Dash Trash", for those of you who don't already know, means you're not good enough to be a real Microsoft employee and refers to the dash in your Microsoft corporate email address that is meant to distinguish you as such. If your name is John Doe and you are Dash Trash, then the email address they will generate for you is v-jdoe@microsoft.com; if you are instead a real employee, then your email address is simply jdoe@microsoft.com.
* I worked on a team of Dash Trash SDEs/SDETs and our range of pay was $17-$31/hr
* I've seen staffing agencies for Microsoft advertise legit Dash Trash SDE positions for as low as $12/hr
* While it's not unheard of for someone to go from Dash Trash to real employee, it usually requires working as Dash Trash for a long time and then begging your manager to consider you for an open real employee position.
* Sure, the title Software Engineer 1 for real Microsoft employees starts out at over $100k/yr, but that's like the elite crew of level-1 engineers, guys who are either CS grads from MIT or are Indian guest workers with 10+ yrs of experience.
* Sure, some guys with a lot of experience who work as Dash Trash can make similar money as real employees do, and some prefer to do this because they only have to work 40 hours per week, don't have to deal with politics, etc.
* I know a college student who interned at Microsoft and told me that the guys he was working with talked bad about the Dash Trash employees and they may have even used the term "Dash Trash" to describe them
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