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Thanks so much everyone. We really appreciate your feedback, This is the kind of input that we were hoping to hear - stuff that's not turning up in our research, such as the homelessness issue and driving behavior. I was particularly surprised by the comments on aggressive driving. We avoid I-95 down here at all costs because driving behavior is so aggressive and dangerous you're literally risking your life by getting on the interstate, so to hear that it's getting bad in Seattle is a bummer, although that is why we're hoping to live in a walkable place with other transportation options. Overall it sounds like Seattle is slowly gaining the dis-benefits of a big City, like congestion, high cost of living, and pandering; but like some have said, it does have a lot to offer, like the scenery and outdoor activities.
We're definitely willing to live in a smaller place or a condo if it means living in a walkable safe neighborhood. Overall, a place that offers a progressive environment, good social welfare (investments in public facilities, higher minimum wages), character feel (rather than strip-mall looking urbanscape), and mellow friendly people seems to appeal to us. Moving to the Pacific Northwest has always been kind of a fantasy that we longed to achieve someday, even though we've only been to Northern California in that region. The area just seems to (at least in theory) offer what we're looking for as I described; and the reason we're thinking Seattle over the neighboring Cities is that Northern Cali would be way too expensive for us, Portland might be too small and doesn't have as much of a robust economy. We also considered Denver, but decided it offers only partial benefits and is getting up there COL wise.
Plenus - Thank you for your comments. I didn't realize homelessness was such a big issue, because it is pretty bad down here too. Also, it's good to know the transit system isn't as fantastic as we thought. In our minds, Seattle is a progressive City and presumably would have a good connected transit system, but it looks like it's getting there with the heavy rail investments besides the bus system.
CrazyDonkey - Thank you for the neighborhood suggestions. We have been reading that housing prices are up there, but were hoping it's manageable. We are willing to go a little up in budget, as long as it's not San Francisco premiums
Hemlock140 - Thank you for suggesting the different areas to live. Also, good to know about the biking experience, because I know Seattle is big on promoting biking and walking, but it seems it's not yet as fruitful behavior-wise.
AreWeThereYet - Thank you for the Pros & Cons breakdown! It's refreshing to know that the Pros do trump the cons. It was really surprising to hear that schools are better in So FL though, knowing that Florida schools don't rank well nationwide, so the fact the Seattle is even worse is a little troubling.
HomeinSeattle - Yes!! The aggressiveness is a huge turnoff for us!! As much as this region has to offer, and as open as people are to diversity, the nastiness, which we have to deal with a lot on the job, in addition to while driving, often gets under our skin...
HotandHumid - Thank you. I don't want to think that we're already priced out of Seattle! And you're right, wild life can get crazy down here
OP, if you are torn on the issue, why move at all? Moving is expensive and if you don't have jobs here and no absolute need to move to Seattle, why move to a place that is more expensive, rainy in the winter and has homeless people? Maybe it would be cheaper to find another place in Florida?
Seacove - you're right, moving is definitely expensive, but we've found that FL is lacking what we're really looking for in a built environment. That includes a true urban feel (but not as overcrowded as NYC or Chicago), character neighborhoods, good schools, pleasant people, a tree canopy, a young professional environment, and things to do.
I don't want to completely discredit the So FL region; there are definitely pros such as the beach and the fact that people are literally color blind, but overall, we feel that we might be able to achieve a better quality of life elsewhere.
We did consider other parts of FL, but it would only be a minor improvement, and I don't think other places have much to offer in terms of urban amenities and things to do. I guess no place is perfect, but we're willing to overcome some cons if we can get most pros, such as a higher COL (not as outrageous as San Fran though).
Ratala, as others who are familiar with FL living have posted, there are some considerations regarding a move to Seattle. I myself only lasted 3 years in FL due to medical conditions which made the climate just unlivable for me. I am originally from the DC area so I will give you my take on the situation.
1) Seattle has a good foodie culture, so you won 't be too disappointed in that, as long as you keep in mind that restaurant prices are rising along with everything else in the city (rent, prop taxes, minimum wages rising all make restaurants increase menu prices). There are good deals to be found, but also lots of pricey places. Farmer's markets and grocery stores are numerous and diverse. Microbreweries and gourmet coffee shops are everywhere.
2) SAD is something to take very seriously. It doesn't happen to everyone, but it does affect some people profoundly to the point where they relocate. You are coming from much closer to the equator, the sun here (when it makes it's rare summer show) is not even close to the intensity you are used to ......so much less skin cancer and wrinkles on folks here!!! When I lived in DC, many people I knew who came up from Florida just could not take the cold winters and moved back to FL in short order.
Seattle winters are not as cold or snowy as those in DC, but it is cloudy, damp, and wet. If there is any way you could take a prolonged visit in the middle of winter to see if you can hack it, that would be best. People spend tons of money on artificial lights etc etc to get around the lack of sun and many just don't get relief. Some resort to pharmaceuticals due to severe SAD. It is a big consideration. While there are many days here that it technically is raining, it is often a drizzle and nothing like a FL downpour. I have been told that carrying an umbrella is a sure sign your are a tourist....I guess that's why hoodies are so popular here.
The reason I moved to WA is that I get physically ill in the heat /sun and my progressive/chronic medical issues made it impossible for me to continue living in FL. I also could no longer drive so I was limited to urban living. When I got here it was like a get out of jail free card to be able to take a walk outside during daylight. But I do remember shivering uncontrollably at first as I had come from 95 degrees to 50 and the airlines lost my bag so I didn't have warm clothes immediately.
3) My dogs were also THRILLED to be out of FL. No more hot pavement on their feet. One I rescued out of a high kill FL shelter. Honestly I had never seen him run til we got here, he had bad lungs and the FL heat just wiped him out. I think someone else mentioned that Seattle loves it's dog more than it's kids and I think I read somewhere that there's more dogs than kids here and also more childless couples than in other major cities. You will have to check on those stats, I am not sure where I saw them. There are a lot of animal shelters in FL that are little more than death camps for dogs, so it was nice to see the very high adoption rates here in WA.
4) Hills....I love them and missed them when I moved from DC to FL...but if you are a native Floridian, hills may make you uneasy. Walking hills will definitely get you in shape, go online and check the topography of any potential neighborhoods as it varies greatly in Seattle.
5) Driving....I no longer drive, but I spent a lot of tine going to DR appts across FL and had to hire a driver. Often the roads seemed like a Mad Max movie littered with car parts but mostly pieces of tires! Apparently there is no yearly safety inspection and many vehicles have bald tires which often pop in the extreme high temps. Once our car was hit by a flying tire fragment from a semi. It bent the frame of the car. Total junkers were being driven at 80 plus miles an hour on I-95. Just crazy! A lot of drunk drivers too, at least where I lived. Here I use the bus and despite budget cuts it's still better than most cities. It can be very crowded and some routes don't run late or much on weekends.
6) Utilities...you will be AMAZED at how cheap electricity is here vs. in FL.....mostly because you won't be using a/c.....the big catch? you mostly likely won't *have* a/c.....even in newer expensive apts, central a/c is not that common. Yes, it has really sucked for me, this year (and last) was unusually hot and my apt was stifling. Be sure to ask (and get in writing) that you will be allowed to use window units. I have encountered landlords that said NO to even the portable units on wheels. Of course you will be stuck buying whatever unit(s) is allowed so keep that in mind. Window units on first floor windows without bars are also a big crime risk.
7) Rent....as you are well aware, rents are high....and square footage is LOW. Seattle is America's fastest growing large city. If you find a place you can barely afford this year, you may be facing moving next year when the landlord raises your rent astronomically. Currently there is no regulation on rent increases and some folks have seen their rents double. Anything you see on Craigslist is typically rented immediately, even shabby places in sketchier areas. Its is just really competitive. Often I see a landlord wait til a few days before he wants the lease to commence before he posts the ad. One time open houses lasting less than an hour are common. Some still use yard signs.
For SFH, water, sewer, and trash is more here than I paid in FL. Many apartments here include water/sewer/trash for a flat monthly fee per apt or per resident. This is not due to benevolent landlords, it"s just because the very old buildings usually don't have individual meters. You may have trouble finding a rental unit with a washer and dryer. This is a real bummer!!!! Make sure to see how many w/d are in the community laundry rooms. I have seen as few as two for 45 apts. Usually they are coin operated. SFH might have hook ups only (you buy your own) although higher end rentals may provide this amenity.
In closing, where ever you decide to move, try to visit in person first. One man's paradise is another's hell. Movers are horrifically expensive (don't even get me started on that subject) and stuff inevitably gets broken in long distance moves, so picking the wrong spot can be a VERY VERY costly error.
I ended up renting a place here that I am not happy with, because I rented it without being there to see it in person. In my case I was too ill to fly ahead so I took a chance based on photos, etc. I didn't want to get off a plane, disabled and alone with 2 dogs and be stuck for an indefinite amount of time in an extended stay hotel. Needless to say I don't recommend my method. If I am considering an apt now, I go there in person AND talk to people coming into the building to see how they like living there. Remember online review sites are easily manipulated, take them with a grain of salt.
If you enter any address you are considering into the website WalkScore.com they will give you a complete list of what is in walking distance and a score of 0-100....they now often also include a bike score and a transit score and a very helpful crime score (not available in all areas). Good resource even if you don't plan on walking much.
Good luck!
You seem to have missed the point I was making about what people refer to as Seattle "Freeze" when it comes to speaking to strangers and striking up conversations. There are plenty of places to comfortably have a conversation in Seattle or any other place with a stranger in a neutral and safe territory such as a restaurant, health club, etc., when there are other people around but I don't believe talking to strangers on the street is a safe place to do so.
Do I recommend responding or saying hi to strangers on the street, especially when others aren't around? My answer is no as I believe in the saying that it's better to be safe than sorry.
I've never been mugged or attacked by a stranger on the street because I don't get involved with people on the street. If someone is looking for directions, there are plenty of stores in downtown Seattle people can go into to ask directions. Of course, if I'm at a stall at the Pike Place Market in standing in front of the vendors there and someone asks me directions, I'm more than happy to supply the information because I'm in full view of others, which helps prevent shady characters from trying to pull a fast one on you.
How many parents tell their children not to talk to strangers? That's how I was raised and I'm still alive writing this so it must be a pretty good thing to teach a child that they can take into adulthood with them. Do you recommend we throw out that safety measure about teaching children to keep walking and ignore strangers trying to strike up a conversation with them?
OP, if you are torn on the issue, why move at all? Moving is expensive and if you don't have jobs here and no absolute need to move to Seattle, why move to a place that is more expensive, rainy in the winter and has homeless people? Maybe it would be cheaper to find another place in Florida?
I moved to South Florida in 1987 and I really didn't check out the climate, social and economic issues that come up regularly here until I moved out of Key West where I was living a bit isolated from the rest of the U.S. and onto South Beach and then later into Fort Lauderdale.
So here are some of the facts:
-Florida gets hit by hurricanes, a lot. Look at the photos on the Internet of what past hurricanes have done to Florida homes and businesses and you might then realize way someone doesn't want to stay put in Florida with the sea levels continuing to rise and hurricanes still coming across the Atlantic, even though there hasn't been a major hit in about 10 years. Because of the swelling population growth along the coastal areas, most of the evacuation routes can no longer be effectively used to evacuate all the population in an area before a major storm is predicted to hit and because of the fact that hurricanes can bounce around and don't always stay on their predicted course, you could evacuate an area and end up being hit by a hurricane where you evacuated to or by one of the tornadoes that often travel in front of, next to and behind hurricanes. Florida is the number one state in the U.S. for costly natural disasters.
-Florida is the number one most affected state by Global Warming in the U.S. Some cities here are seeing their streets flood during high tides from sea water coming up through the rainwater drains that are supposed to drain rain water away. Miami Beach just had to raise property taxes to pay for pumping stations to be built to try pump out tidal waters before they flood the streets as they do now. Fort Lauderdale is spending over $8 million dollars to put in pumps and locking devices on rainwater drains to keep just one small wealthy neighborhood from flooding. Dams and levees cannot be built that will hold back rising seas because there is no bedrock in Florida and sea water can seep below any man made structures built to hold back the rising seas. Our average temperatures here are rising. The heat index yesterday was 105 because of the high humidity here that doesn't abate at night like it does in northern areas and the official hurricane season now runs from May through November.
-Our drinking water is at risk. Because of Florida having no bedrock, sea water is making it's way through the sandy soil here into our underground fresh water supplies and has caused cities to close wells and drill wells further inland to try to find drinking water that hasn't yet been tainted by sea water. When there are drought conditions, as there has been the past several years, the water supply under us shrinks as the only way it's replenished is by rain water. The water table in South Florida is now at the lowest level it's been at in the past 100 years, which is part of the reason Florida has sink holes that swallow up streets, businesses and homes as the supporting water under some areas of land gets drained away by the lower water table.
-The Miami, Fort Lauderdale and West Palm Beach area is one of the most expensive areas in the U.S. to live because the wage scales are so low here. People who live in South Florida pay the highest housing costs of any where in the U.S. except for Sarasota, Florida, and San Francisco. The minimum wage is $8.05 in Florida.
-Broward County (Fort Lauderdale), then Miami-Dade County, then West Palm Beach County lead the nation with the most new cases per capita of HIV infection.
-Broward County is the epicenter in the U.S. for having the most cases of FLAKKA abuse reported and it used to be the epicenter of Oxycontin abuse in the U.S. until the Federal Government cracked down on the "pill mills" in Broward County.
-This area of Florida lacks an efficient public transportation system thus the majority of people who live here own and regularly drive automobiles and many are creating more and more congestion on the already traffic congested streets as people move away from neighborhoods near their work places as those neighborhoods become more and more populated by an increasing Haitian and Latin population that speaks very little English, creating an atmosphere where it's difficult to gain employment here unless you speak either Creole French and Spanish or both. Florida, and most particularly South Florida, has become a point of entry for poor Cubans, Haitians, Central and South Americans leaving their countries due to bad economic conditions in those countries and trying to get a toe hold in America, either legally or illegally.
-Florida is far too conservative politically for many people having a Republican oil company supported governor who was recently re-elected who had previously successfully fought against having a Federally subsidized high speed rail system put in Florida that would have cut down on oil consumption while creating jobs. That governor, who owns a health care company, also has fought against having Federally subsidized health care for the poor expanded in Florida, used state funds to sue the Federal government for implementing the Affordable Care Act and he had also instructed his attorney general to appeal against, at Florida taxpayer expense, any Federal judge ruling in favor of Gay marriage until he could no longer do so after the Supreme Court declared that state laws violating the rights of Gays to marry was declared unconstitutional.
Florida usually ends up at the bottom of the list of states for social programs that help the poor and disabled and usually ends up at the top of the list for the poor health of the citizens, Medicaid fraud, automobile drivers who kill pedestrians and people riding bicycles, drug smuggling and lots of other not so desirable statistics so if you do a little research, you'll realize why Florida is not such a paradise for many and why some people want to move away from Florida.
Last edited by HotandHumid; 09-08-2015 at 06:59 PM..
Spot on, Hot and Humid. As a born and bred Miami boy who has lived in Seattle a long time, I'll pile some stuff on. It seems like every scam (medical, insurance, fake charity, etc) that happens in the country has it's roots in Miami, the races don't get along well, pythons and alligators are having epic battles in the Glades and there are no hills in the southern part of state. Really, no hills. Get out, before you are surrounded by red ants and carried away, you know the ants I'm talking about
You can find 2bd/2ba apartments in most areas in Seattle for $2,000-2,500, including Queen Anne, Capitol Hill, First Hill, Magolia, Ballard, Fremont, U-District-Roosevelt/Ravenna, Admiral (West Seattle), etc. All safe and walkable areas, close to Downtown, and with good to excellent schools. I'd look for an apartment first, then once you've lived here for a year, you'll be in a better position to know where it'll be best to look for a house.
The only thing for sure is that Seattle is COMPLETELY different from Florida. You really have to be here to grok it.
You can definitely spend all year outside, if you so wish. We rarely have weather that would require you to stay inside. That being said, you may not want to go outside all year. I'm a native and I didn't develop SADS until my early 40's. It's really hard to say how you will handle the weather until you have a chance to experience it. My husband is from Chicago and has no problems whatsoever with our winters. It's not the rain that gets to most of us. It's the low lying clouds and the lack of light. Sometimes at noon it can look like the sun has almost gone down for the day. I go into a sort of hibernation mode for the winters.
Now, last winter was one of the mildest, driest, sunniest winters I've ever experienced here. It wasn't good for our environment (little to no snow in the mountains), but I sure liked it.
I agree with CrazyDonkey's suggestion that you rent an apartment first, then decide if it's worth staying and that will also give you a chance to experience the various neighborhoods before putting down roots.
I moved to South Florida in 1987 and I really didn't check out the climate, social and economic issues that come up regularly here until I moved out of Key West where I was living a bit isolated from the rest of the U.S. and onto South Beach and then later into Fort Lauderdale.
So here are some of the facts:
I was responding to someone who said they were torn between the choice of Seattle or Florida. They don't have jobs here and from the sound of the post, may have never even visited, much less have an understanding of the weather differences between Florida and Seattle winters. I simply said, if all things are equal, why move if there is not a compelling reason and they aren't even sure if they want to?
We seem to be attracting a lot of people who are imaging Seattle as this mecca and they have never even been here before. If you don't like Florida, you should move but the OP said they were torn.
Perhaps you were using my post as a way to vent your distaste for Florida but read the posts here for a while and you will see a definite trend. A few weeks ago someone posted that they just arrived, have pets and have no place to stay and could we recommend a hotel - because they are literally here driving around.
Politically, yeah I get it but you guys elected him twice. If states are responsible for their own insurance markets, we should require a multi-year residency requirement before new residents qualify for the Washington market. What they choose to do in the south is their business but they should live the results of their vote. I like Florida - to visit. There must be something good about Florida if you've lived there almost 30 years.
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Referring to Seattle "Freeze"
