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Hey folks, I've been a regular lurker on the city-data forums for years and I finally decided to reach out and seek some advice on a big decision I need to make.
I'm trying to decide if should move to Seattle for a job in Redmond, or move to SF/Oakland for a job in Downtown SF. The pay at both is fairly similar, so I'd be taking home more in Seattle naturally. Also the work in Redmond is a bit more interesting, though the culture and work-life balance seem a little better with the SF job. Both are decently paying tech jobs. I wouldn't be struggling financially with either. I've visited both cities a couple of times, though I'm still struggling with this decision.
About me. 32 year old straight guy, single. I grew up in the Boston area, lived in Somerville just north of Boston for a few years and absolutely loved it. Then I moved to the DC area and have lived in Arlington VA for a few years, but haven't liked it as much. What I miss about Somerville/Boston is the more laid back culture, the quirky people, the pedestrian friendliness. It's also only two hours from the mountains in New Hampshire. I do like the warmer and sunnier weather in DC though, but aside from that, I prefer the Boston area.
My primary interests are outdoor oriented. I love bike riding (road currently though I'm interested in trying mtn), hiking, rock climbing. I also have enjoyed snowboarding. I also like cities, being able to navigate on foot or bicycle so that I can experience the city beyond looking through a windshield. Food is also something I really like about cities, with my favorites being Asian (Thai, Vietnamese, Korean, plus Indian) and Latin American for the most part.
With SF, I'd be excited about the weather as I like Sun and don't like rain and cold as much, plus the vibrancy, and opportunities to meet people and do fun activities. I'm not crazy about nightlife anymore, so I'm not sure how often I'd partake in that, and I'm a little concerned I might feel a bit old for some activities. I'm also concerned if I met someone and got the point where I was ready for a family, I'd have to move elsewhere. The bay area seems like it'd be great for biking, and decent for hiking with Mt Tam and Mt Diablo, plus redwoods etc. I went to Yosemite this Summer and found it to be gorgeous, and that and Tahoe are only 3 or 4 hours away.
With Seattle, I'd look forward to closer mountains than SF. I also like the trees and greenery, and the pretty residential streets and laid back atmosphere. I think that I might feel less guilty in Seattle just hanging out in the evening and watching a movie or playing board games etc. rather than hitting the town. If I liked it, it's also a place that would be a lot easier to settle down in, buy a house and raise a family. But my big concern is that weather. 50ish degrees, often overcast and misty sounds very unpleasant to me. My other concern is that it'd be harder to meet people, particularly women for dating.
I lived in SF when I was your age, also in Seattle. Things have changed since then (like, fire was discovered) but your points are pretty valid. But some personal thoughts...
One thing I felt living in SF (all over town - Mission, Marina, Russian Hill, South of Market before it was gentrified) was that the density became quite oppressive, and even when you wanted to get out of town - maybe to Marin, or out to the Sacramento River Delta (under-utilized and very cool in places) you were competing with thousands and thousands of people with the same idea. One Memorial Day my then-fiance and I decided to head off to Yosemite. We got to the junction of CA 99 and (I think) CA 132 in Modesto, where there were CHP cars stopping motorists and telling us that Yosemite was full and not to bother if we didn't have reservations. Over 100 miles! That's extreme, but it really drove home the point; living in the Bay Area never lets you forget that there are seven million people close to you, many of them wanting your parking place or dinner reservation.
Seattle isn't the roll-up-the-sidewalks sort of place it once was, but there are an awful lot of mountains to accept the crowds, an awful lot of miles of salt water to accommodate their boats, and in 90 min. or so you can be east of the Cascades in sunny (and often warmer) country when the winter drizzle gets oppressive. Or skiing in an hour (vs. 4 - 5 from SF). In three hours from Seattle you can be in Vancouver BC or Portland, both amazing cities. In three hours from SF you can be in... Fresno.
The weather in the winter can be miserable, but spring, summer and fall are terrific, better than SF's in my book. Asian food is on a par with the Bay area; if anything more diverse and eclectic. We don't have anywhere near as much choice (or, frankly, quality) in Latin American offerings as you'll get in California.
I'll let others comment on the social and dating differences between Seattle and the Bay Area; frankly I suspect they are far more similar than different. The tech bubble world in the Seattle area is, I think, a little more compact than in the Bay Area - downtown Seattle and South Lake Union + Redmond, vs. downtown SF and virtually all of San Mateo and Santa Clara counties down south. You still have a working steel mill in Seattle, shipbuilding and airplane manufacturing, lots of industry that doesn't have IT at its core. That's true to a degree in the Bay Area, too, but you have to search for it.
Sadly, Seattle seems hell-bent on shedding its quirkiness and grittiness, like SF. But there's still a big music scene, a big cinema scene, lots of theater, and plenty to do on those rainy nights to keep you entertained. Housing is cheaper, taxes WAY lower, and you can always use a couple hundred of the extra dollars in your paycheck to fly to San Francisco for a weekend if you need to.
I'm from the east coast originally, been in Seattle 26 years, went to University at UVM in Burlington Vermont. Seattle often reminds me of a big Burlington, nature is always close by. You sound like the kind of person (like many of my clients) who would want to work in Redmond but live on the Seattle side. Come visit, check out Fremont and Capitol Hill. I think you will like it. The cold and grey? It's not so bad, rather drizzly at times (think Edinburgh Scotland). Makes for a lot of green beauty, summers seem to be getting longer, sunnier and warmer.
Well, OP, it's hard to say, as it depends somewhat on your interests. If you're into the outdoors and nature-based activities more than urban pursuits (great entertainment, concerts, etc.), you'd probably prefer Seattle. Though the Bay Area does have redwood forests and beaches within easy access, too. Not sure what you mean about feeling guilty staying home and kicking back with a good movie now and then; Berkeley has the laid-back atmosphere you're looking for in that regard. You could live in Berkeley or Albany, and commute to SF, as many people do. There are bike trails in those areas, too, as well as huge parks in the hills.
I probably haven't added any clarity to your thought process; I just wanted to point out a few things for you to think about. Let us know what you decide.
Oh, and both regions have horrific traffic problems. The Bay Area's public transit system is a little better, but Seattle is gradually improving theirs.
If you think you would enjoy San Francisco for awhile, I would go there for now. Fact is, when you are ready to settle down, you will need to leave there, so do it now while you're unencumbered. Redmond seems like more of a family area to me, so you could always move there from San Fran once you're ready to settle down. Both areas will always be there, but I think it would be much easier to move from San Francisco to Seattle than vice versa.
You obviously have done your research and put a lot of thought into this move. I'll add some of my perspectives.
Culturally, San Francisco is much more diverse than Seattle. Needless to say, SF also has way more food options as well. And SF is much more urban than Seattle, whose downtown area is tiny and dead after work hours. Seattle-like weekend activities focus primarily on the outdoors. The California city, while also close to outdoors sites, has enough entertainment options to cover you if you're not into leaving town. Seattle does have many options, but not quite on the same level as SF. Except for football and soccer. Our football and soccer teams are simply superior.
Tech career-wise, Seattle is catching up. When everything in SF is twice as expensive as it is in Seattle, and Seattle is attracting hordes of tech talent, naturally the industry will tilt toward Seattle more.
Weather-wise, I'm not a fan of the Seattle gloom. I don't like the SF weather either - there are no real seasons in SF.
Socially, Seattle is kind of awkward and geeky. SF has better variety of personalities, but since both cities are quite sizable, I think they are comparable in terms of dating pool.
I'm a world traveler, I never tire of the ethnic food options in Seattle. A pretty big added benefit is having Vancouver BC just two and a half hours away.
Realize that there are no rentals in SF under $2000 and many are north of $4000. At the rate things are going, the only people who will be able to afford living in SF are Ellison, Benioff and Zuckerberg.
I think if the pay for both is 80-120k, the cost of living difference is significant enough in terms of rent you would likely enjoy Seattle much more. If the pay is 180k-250k+ you would probably enjoy the urban amenities of SF more and the high rent prices wouldn't impact you as much. If you are in the middle, it's really close.
Food in SF is way better, full stop. All my friends from CA have an expression we like to use, "is it good, or is it good for Seattle?" The food scene here isn't bad, but if you are coming from LA or SF, you will not be super impressed. But it's way better than DC, that food scene is extremely mediocre by west coast standards, so you would likely be happy with both cities for food.
In general I think Seattle is a far more pleasant place than SF, far more relaxing, serene...but SF is more vibrant, with a better singles scene. You will have a far better standard of living in Seattle due to the 0% income tax and lower rent prices. SF will provide you with a wider range of career opportunities.
I think in general if you aren't in a type of career field where you can push 250k+ at some point in the medium term, you would be better off in Seattle, because the oppressive cost of living in SF will wear you down. I know many people who make a lot of money there, and just feel poor and feel they can't get ahead. We are talking people who make over 200k.
Even 250k salary is 1BR condo territory (for buying in SF) if you want to live in a nice place in a nice part of the city. I think if you like both cities fairly equally and both career opportunities are fairly equal, you are better off in Seattle. If you liked SF quite a bit more or the job was a little bit better in SF (or paid a little more) it would be very close. But Seattles superior value for money makes it a good choice IMO.
Seattle is an excellent bike riding town. I ride everywhere, and so do many peeps. Check out the Cascade Bike Club. Tons of fun organized rides.
SFO is bigger so probably does have more food options. But really, Seattle has enough fine food options to satisfy many a lifetime. We love Asian food, and struggle to get out of Capitol Hill and downtown the choices are so extensive and high quality. And new places are opening weekly.
You might find state taxes a somewhat stark differentiator. As well as real estate/rent. Seattle isn't cheap, but its not SFO.
And I don't think weather is really that different. SFO is a foggy old place, and that wind blows hard and is rarely warm. Obviously excellent weather in Seattle is a bonus, not something you rely on.
There's better mountains up here for sure.
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