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Thanks Elko.. I appreciate your kind words. I remember you have had a lot of good posts throughout various threads on the forum. Yeah, well Midwest is having a bit of a boom in some places which is good to hear. Being a Norhtwesterner, I just don't think I could survive the flat, lack of trees, mountains and endless prairies, cold winters and muggy hot summers of the Midwest.
There are a few of those farmer Joe types out here, but it is a strange mix which is somewhat typical of smaller Northwestern cities, but a little bit different. Boise definitely has a bit more of a Christian evangelical/Mormon influence. However , the city actually seems to try too hard to be ultra-liberal/ultra-progressive to rival the more conservative surroundings of its 3 mile radius core. However, almost any activities there are to do in the Treasure Valley that do not revolve around church and being married w/kids, shopping or entertaining yourself at chain stores and mini-malls will be centered around Boise's urban core.
Northern Idaho is very beautiful, although the mountainous area of Southern Idaho is magnificent, but can hardly be considered habitable for a non-retired person. It is probably one of the most rural and remote places on the Earth.
Anyhow, I will let you know what happens.. I am hoping to relocate back to the Puget Sound sometime soon. THere is not a lot of jobs in Boise and Idaho is definitely a strange place to find a job, but also integrate into the various social circles and networks. It is a very, somebody knows somebody town and you are suppose to know somebody from somewhere. It's bizarre. There are a few corporations here though that are helping push the town into more growth and bringing in some engineering and other talents from around the globe, but it is still a limited supply overall.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 08-25-2016 at 11:47 PM..
Rotse, Rotse, Rotse, all you did was complain about our liberalness when you were in Seattle. If you think Boise is too wannabe liberal, how will you cope with the real thing? I get it though, when we took a corporate move to Denver, it wasn't even six months before we started getting depressed. Our jobs were great but Denver is not Seattle and we even had family there. The idea of not living near Puget Sound felt like a huge loss. It really is the most beautiful place in the country IMO.
Thank you HomesinSeattle and Treuphax.. Seattle has its share of problems, but you don't think of the special things Seattle offers until you leave.
Hopefully, I will be seeing both of you soon . I will be having to trek into Seattle probably during the winter to apply for software jobs, but if I land something sooner, maybe I will move sooner and ditch my lease here in Idaho.. Seattle's booming IT market is a blessing, but I am a bit worried to see what the rental prices are going to be like when I go house-hunting this Winter.
Seattle is definitely shooting to become at the forefront of the IT industry and many top Silicon Valley companies are packing their bags from business unfriendly Commiefornia and moving to the much more IT business friendly state of Washington. Google, Apple, Oracle (predominately Silicon Valley powerhouses) are now investing heavily and opening up large campuses in the Seattle area and the influence of these companies in the region is growing, whereas some companies in the Silicon Valley are starting to wane as the combination of insane rents, high taxes and disgruntled IT force stuck in far, far suburban hell want to look for funner and more livable pastures.
Washington people are not much different than Idaho people, but I actually found the people who lived in my suburb in Seattle to be way friendlier and outgoing than where I live in suburban Boise. The rugged individualism people experience in Washington is distinct to all the Northwest, but the Seattle area is definitely no more frozen than most parts of the Northwest. People in the Northwest are reserved and a bit clannish, but places like Boise are way more clannish, cliquesh and reserved than Seattle.
Seattle being a big thriving city located in a very remote and magnificent forest and mountain region gives it the best of both worlds. You are not stuck in small town hell with sheltered people who can think in a very small-minded way. No, it has nothing to do with being conservative/liberal (I am as conservative as they come). It has to do with just the culture and environment of the people of the area which rubs off on almost everyone. Anyhow, living in a city with different types of people, opportunities, activities, good career jobs and surrounded by pristine wilderness is a real blessing that you should not overlook.
I am a native Oregonian, so when I stripped myself of the Cascades, I stripped part of my Cascadian/Pacific Northwest soul.
I'm very much looking forward to an in depth personal reflection on what happened in Idaho... what your expectations were, why it fell short, perhaps some consideration of your personal state of mind (and heart). I think people overestimate the importance the place where they're living. Of course it's important, and like converting a religion the wavelength and spirit of a place (or faith) can just make sense and be a great fit. On the other hand I've read (can't find the source) reports of a personal happiness survey that asked people about their life satisfaction and happiness before and after a move to various different cities across the country. The conclusion was the deciding factor was the people... People moving to the big name famous and glamorous places were generally less satisfied than a lot of the people moving to smaller places in flyover country. It was a brief report and didn't really speculate about why these differences were so marked, but I'll contribute my own speculation.... Number One: Expectations. The big-name famous places couldn't live up to the imagined dreams and big expectations. The smaller places outperformed and surprised to the upside. Since this thread has stipulated that it be exclusively Pollyanna positive stuff here, I'll refrain from speculating what this might mean for Seattle. Number Two: Small Town / Big City Dichotomy. Maybe I'm just projectin' my own stereotypes, but I'd expect that places like Cleveland or Pittsburgh might offer warmer human & community relations than more competitive and glamorous places.... Maybe enough to compensate for less than optimal climate. Ultimately the objectively reported level of well-being and satisfaction didn't change very much at all no matter the move. Perhaps a corollary for wherever you go there you are....
Ya'll are going to hate me, but I just want to pull out my hair when I read all the inquiries from people who want to move to Seattle for the most superficial of reasons.... Adventurous "Foodie" dining, farmers markets walkable neighborhoods and any other passive bourgeois bohemian consumptive pleasures. Sure we've got all that, but after a spell it becomes awfully empty and soulless passive consumptive experiences. I might get it if one wants to come here to PARTICIPATE or CONTRIBUTE actively to a particular creative community. Otherwise it just seems like sad passive consumptive tourism...
OK I'll quit, I apologize perhaps for polluting the positive vibe, but the curmudgeon in me couldn't resist finding his voice.
Finally I'll ask our dear friend Mr. Rotse why he doesn't return to his hometown, Portland? Not that we don't welcome him here, but perhaps roots, friends and family there might make it all worthwhile to return to Portland like a fully grown salmon after it's spent its time in the big wide ocean? If I had friends and family someplace, I might there. I'm just damaged by culture shock and frequent relocation, that I have no place I can call "home." I've been reading that a number of technology companies have been opening branch offices in Portland... Perhaps employment perspectives have even improved since he last was there.
Finally regarding Mr. Rotse's political leanings that would be uncommon and perhaps unwelcome in Seattle...
I read this interesting essay by one of my favorite bloggeresses, Megan McArdle, in which she explains how much of a difference it made for her psychic well-being to leave a city where she was a closeted political dissident for a place with other like-minded souls. This perhaps explains some of the dissatisfaction and isolation that some feel when they can't "live true to themselves and their philosophies." https://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...re-coming-from
For every one who's fled small minded oppressive religious and persecution for the big progressive liberal cities, San Francisco, New York, and Seattle to be free to let their freak flags fly, there might also be some boring squares who are annoyed by all the crazy sanctimonious permissiveness that make so much about how life is managed in these progressive cities defy common sense.
I cannot write these literary grade responses as you Treuphax, but I will summarize.
I lost my job last Winter working in a family software business which I devoted much of my life to for the last 15 years. This was a business me and my father had and I helped innovative and modernize his software. He promised to eventually split the business or give the business to me and retire, but ended up cheating me, kicking me away after he got a huge inheritance and now is going to try to bank off of all my sweat, blood and hard work; although I feel he will eventually eat dirt and fail.
Anyhow, I moved to Idaho because it is cheap to live here and thought I could save my resources and start my own business and it was not far of a drive from Seattle and could move all my stuff. So, that is what made me move to Idaho and I thought maybe I could enjoy the outdoors and beauty of the nature here, but sadly things have not worked out.
My business aspirations are going to be halted and I need to find work as I watch my income keep dwindling and I am not a real great fan of Boise as a town, nor think there is much offerings here in IT field in Boise. Indeed, this place is very blue-collar oriented and is a very suburban, go to church and get married with kids or move here with your family environment. The area is pretty much service/blue-collar focused and doesn't have a lot to offer me.
Since you were pushing me and needed to know all these wonderful details telling me I should move to Portland instead, I will fill you in.. My cruel and heartless family lives in Portland, so I will never even enter that town again for the worry I may actually have to see the parasite family of mine who took advantage of me, cheated and abused me. Yes, as much as I miss Portland and love all its good aspects, I cannot live there because my family is there. We didn't all come from good families Treuphax.
And, as far as your statement of I won't be accepted in Seattle because of my political views, I say it is BS. Almost every urban city inner core is very liberal in the year of 2016 and after living in the so-called conservative city of Boise, I have found that this phenomenon of urban liberalism is prevalent just about everywhere. In fact, outside of Capitol Hill, downtown Boise/North End area is even more liberal than many parts of Seattle. For example, Tacoma is probably more conservative as a town than inner Boise. The irony is that in the 4 years I lived in the Puget Sound, all the neighborhoods I lived in were very conservative. When I lived out in the Snoqualmie Valley I woke up to the sound of gun shots from people doing their deer hunting.
You also forget the huge military presence and industrial presence of the Seattle area. The Fort Lewis/McChord base is one of the largest in the country and has brought one of the most conservative demographics of people in the country into the Puget Sound region.
My take is that Washington as a state is very conservative, the Puget Sound is somewhere in between and Seattle is uber-liberal. Although, Portland is every bit as liberal, if not even more, so no bargain there either.
Portland's tech scene is only a fraction of what Seattle's is and the cost of living in Portland and taxes are ridiculous for the wages. But once again, with the crappy family I have there I will not even step foot in the city anymore, except for maybe a quick overnight trip (if I live in Seattle).
Also, I am an avid hiker and trekker and enjoy the lush and rugged beauty of the Cascades and utterly miss the large bodies of water.
I also do enjoy farmer's markets , the local, bio-dynamic and organic produce, as well as all the other aspects of living in a lush, fertile, eco-friendly environment with lots of local farmers, ranchers and community farming efforts.
You give some type of praise to Cleveland and Pittsburgh. Have you been to these places? I have yet to hear Cleveland being very inviting and other cities in Ohio , from what I hear, are outright slums and warzones, like Cincinnati and Columbus. Cleveland is only a step above. Pittsburgh, actually has had a major urban renewal and is not the gritty rust belt wasteland it was at one time, so Pittsburgh may have some potential here. Although I hear the place is cloudier and colder than Seattle and the forests are filled with Lyme Disease infested ticks. Western PA has the highest reported rate of Lyme Disease in the world if I am correct. Anyway, every place has its ups and downs.
Small towns can be great, especially if you are married with kids and have either a mobile income or a skill that you can utilize in your small town. However, small towns can also be real crappy places. Boise is a very odd situation. It is like a giant suburb where everyone just keeps to themselves, goes to church and then stays at home and doesn't leave. The only real cosmopolitan or social outlets you have are the downtown area filled with drunk college kids, snobby liberal hipsters who think they are so cool for living in Boise and the hordes of bonded IT workers who transplanted to Micron and a few other big tech shops. The Micron guys seem to be married to each other and can always be found in groups and you will see the same guys at different venues on different days. It's like they are married to each other. Also, the downtown core, which is like the only real social environment of this city is so small, that you see the same people too often. Everyone knows your business and people are very clannish and cliquey. Literally, one group of guys I met demanded I renounce Judaism (their pack leader hated organized religion) if I wanted to come and hang with them. Basically, I told the entire group of fellas that I will stand by my religion and I do not need to roll with their crew. They were seriously butthurt.. Weird people out here in the Boise city limits and very polarizing in some ways. The suburban people are your more red blooded conservative types, but they are all married, at church or busy with kids and you will be hard pressed to befriend them. I actually am amazed at how unfriendly and reserved my red-blooded conservative suburb is where I live compared to red-blooded suburbs/small towns I lived in Oregon in the past. Sprawled suburbs as a whole do not promote a very friendly and social atmosphere and Boise is like 90% sprawled.
As far as family, roots, friends..
I was attacked by the Rabbi at my local synagogue who verbally abused me and made false statements against me for no good reason (except I challenged his halachic authority). Me and him use to debate a lot when I stayed at his house, he felt threatened by a mere laymen like me challenging his greatness. I am looking into taking legal action against him and the shul, but now I cannot even attend any Orthodox synagogue in Seattle. But, this is not stopping me from moving to Seattle, even though I will not have a Jewish community.
I have a few friends, not many good ones, very few to be honest. I have no family, as I was disowned by my family, who used , manipulated and took advantage of me for years. I was rejected by my Jewish community. Most Jews in Seattle have large bank accounts and have a lot of connections. I am an outsider, not very religious (frummish) and do not have a big bank account. I was easy prey for the ravenous, power hungry and corrupt Orthodox rabbis here in Seattle. THe old saying in many synagogues is "You Got to Pay To Pray". I'm basically all on my own in this world, with only G-d to guide me.
Life is wonderful, isn't it? I am moving on and still am looking forward to the great things Seattle has to offer. I also understand that Seattle isn't so much greater or worse as a city than many other places. Yes, the liberalism of the city sucks, but the Puget Sound area does balance it out and there are so many great benefits of the area that overshadow the few flaws the city has. If you live in a place like Cleveland, for example, getting gunned down walking through the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time becomes more of a day to day problem than Seattle. Or, your car may be ripped apart by one of the giant potholes or have to put up with -25F windy days too often. Every place has problems.
Mr. Treuphax, I hope I answered some of your questions.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 08-26-2016 at 03:20 AM..
I'm just damaged by culture shock and frequent relocation, that I have no place I can call "home."
Hey, treuphax, we have something in common here. Yikes - the business community of American, which includes the medical community, hospitals and clinics, is...cutthroat and back-biting and backstabbing in this nation. The Beaver-Cleaver values, honesty, religion and what all of those things mean is fading, or, has faded back in the 60's, 70's or 80's. I don't know why, but the image of Bernie Madoff just entered into my mind.
Boeing included - I worked there for 20 years and I have earned a pension, and in a couple of months I will learn what they will offer me in the way of a "pension buyout." Almost invariably, these cheat you out of thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. Provided you continue to keep living, that is. I'll give the letter a listen and then promptly reject it. They best not cut dollars off the amount in the process - will need ta read the paperwork with a fine-toothed comb. Point of this is that I liked my job at Boeing and loved the Puget Sound area. It's home - it's where I was born. Now, my wife and I and our "kids" - two dogs and two cats - really don't have a home. I'll give my best to yet another employer - this one shows a lot of promise and will expect a lot from me, but that's how it should work. Hopefully I've found one with empathy, fellow feeling and a heart that beats with love and goodness. Lord knows I've already found some nasty, ungodly and hateful ones - they'll spill you out on the streets with a stroke of a cheap pen.
So we'll try the KC Metro and this employer for as long as I can give them what they want and I get a livable paycheck from them. But we have lived in so many places now and met so many friends we've had ta leave behind that I can hear Jason Isbell in his great tune 'Danko/Manuel' singing "another place ya have ta leave" in my head on autoplay. A sense of decency and loyalty is gone and, 2008 and the shenanigans still fresh in most of our heads, it has happened well before that, city-data'ers. If it wasn't for a strong belief system in the Creator of us all and a planned-out future very different from the one we're all living now, I would want ta take a walk into the woods in western Washington somewhere and just...hide out. Perhaps BigFoot isn't as mean as he's cracked up ta be.
How about not debating a person who has kindly offered to let you stay in his house? How would you feel if someone who was staying with you attacked your beliefs and your job?
I disagree with organized religion, but I still have respectful and interesting discussions with people and we usually part with a laugh, with me making a lame joke about needing them to put in a good word for me on the other side.
Having read your posts over time, I had a feeling this move wasn't going to work out, so may I suggest that you do some introspection on why you keep finding yourself in the same situation again and again.
I never got in a fight with him while I stayed at his house. Getting into theological discussion with a Rabbi is respectable and being a guest doesn't mean you are the person's slave. His family (and I thought him) seem to like me. He verbally abused me when I called him 4-5 years later about inquiring his synagogue on a phone call that lasted only 10 minutes. Basically, the holy rabbi start spewing insults at me for no reason. He was attacking me, calling me a little child and other insults. All this was after I told him I lost my job, looking to move to Seattle, network with people, etc and he just went off on a tirade against me. He told me, I am not the kind of guy who can be accepted at his synagogue, I am a lower grade of Jew then the people who go to his shul.. He had the very, High and Holy Man Complex.
Anyway, you are talking out of your a** and don't know anything about me, the encounter or even about Judaism. So maybe you should pretend to be an expert about something you know about.. You can disagree with organized religion all you like and I never would talk down on you about that.
I could give crap less if you read my posts and what you think, just like every other internet expert/scholar who thinks they know everything.
Anyway, I am not sad at all, I am moving on and as I said, I respect the good things Seattle has to offer.
I am probably harder worker, more diligent and respectable human being than yourself, so go ahead and judge and talk down on me. At the end of it all, G-d judges me and you for all we have done in this life, not for the big words and judgments we pass on City Data Forum. com.
Yeah, you sound like a peach, Rotse, but I do wish you the best even though you are a very angry man, maybe finding a synagogue that is a better fit will help. Most of my Jewish friends live on the east coast, but I love the culture and how open they are discussing faith and religion with a gentile like myself.
There are people that travel, work and play that keep meeting fun and interesting people and then there are some who always seem to find examples of the worse in humanity. Asking someone to renounce their religion would be a pretty good example of that.
Now, back to things I love about Seattle, electric bikes! I know that there is big debate on them and some riders act like jerks, but if you haven't you should take one out for a test ride. Never fear a hill again or worry that you might not have the strength to make it home.
If anyone wants advice on ebikes, send me a message, I spent a ridiculous amount of time researching them.
Perigee, I'm not an angry man and I don't hate you. I think you are being an armchair critic, know nothing about my life or what happened between me and this rabbi and are ignorantly passing judgments you would not want passed to your self.
Anyhow I look forward to moving back to the Puget Sound and spending the rest of my days there until I make Aliyah to Israel, if I ever even do that in this life.
I could care less what criticisms, judgments or insults people give me here on this forum or in life general.
Shavua Tov!
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I get it though, when we took a corporate move to Denver, it wasn't even six months before we started getting depressed. Our jobs were great but Denver is not Seattle and we even had family there. The idea of not living near Puget Sound felt like a huge loss. It really is the most beautiful place in the country IMO.
. I will be having to trek into Seattle probably during the winter to apply for software jobs, but if I land something sooner, maybe I will move sooner and ditch my lease here in Idaho.. Seattle's booming IT market is a blessing, but I am a bit worried to see what the rental prices are going to be like when I go house-hunting this Winter. 
