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Do you have a college degree? I do not recall that you mentioned that, ever. You need that, & you may need to retool.
My SIL has a PhD in astronomy/astrophysics. He wanted to be in academia, but even while in grad school he saw that was not the direction to go, so he took online courses through Coursera, while still pursuing his PhD, & reinvented himself. He's now a Data Engineer at a major Bay Area company, with head hunters pursuing him.
My daughter is an organic chemist. She is also looking to reinvent herself.
They are tired of the Bay Area, but for now career-wise, it's where they need to be. They are making the best of it. They escape to the Sierras, Yosemite, Monterey Bay when they can, to get out of the urban insanity.
Neither of them were born with silver spoons, just brains, drive & creativity.
You may not get to live where you want to, lots of people can't. You may need to get established elsewhere, then return if you can. That's life.
Last edited by MarciaMarshaMarcia; 05-01-2017 at 05:14 PM..
Welcome to the club. Already did this almost 2 years ago.
Not all of the Midwest is as cold and flat as you make it out to be. KC and StL, for example, only have short spells where it gets really cold. Also, here around KC it's actually pretty hilly. Plus, it's very unlikely to get expensive any time soon, unlike some other Sunbelt cities you might end up choosing.
Do you have a college degree? I do not recall that you mentioned that, ever. You need that, & you may need to retool.
My SIL has a PhD in astronomy/astrophysics. He wanted to be in academia, but even while in grad school he saw that was not the direction to go, so he took online courses through Coursera, while still pursuing his PhD, & reinvented himself. He's now a Data Engineer at a major Bay Area company, with head hunters pursuing him.
My daughter is an organic chemist. She is also looking to reinvent herself.
They are tired of the Bay Area, but for now career-wise, it's where they need to be. They are making the best of it. They escape to the Sierras, Yosemite, Monterey Bay when they can, to get out of the urban insanity.
Neither of them were born with silver spoons, just brains, drive & creativity.
You may not get to live where you want to, lots of people can't. You may need to get established elsewhere, then return if you can. That's life.
Marcia, I do not have a college degree, but it has not stopped me from getting a few interviews at Microsoft and some other large companies. I left college in the 90s to pursue a career in software and joined up with family business and trained myself during a time when software curriculum was very poor. However, my problem isn't getting the interviews as much as not passing the coding exams and algorithm questions. After being off the market for 15 years, I have yet to be prepared for the mind bending questions I am presented. I've talked to some top developers here in Seattle who say my 16+ years of experience developing medical/dental software and my skill set with .NET, C++ and VB should be able to get me some type of decent work even without the degree. I've had senior Amazon recruiters also coming at me for interviews. I even had an Oracle guy interview me despite having a completely opposing stack to what Oracle would want. To be honest, being a senior developer, your college degree is really not considered an asset unless the company a strict rule of only hiring college grads. There are enough of them out there that don't have that requirement. These companies are deeply probing my skills and what I can offer them over anything. The algorithm puzzles seem to be the real deal breaker and test of my integrity and it is my largest weakness.
Software engineering, chemistry and astronomy are a bit different fields. In fact, many of the college graduates I am talking to are having a hard time getting any interviews or action. I am not saying it would not be good to have one, but at this late in the game getting a degree is out of the question. I get calls from recruiters every day and have already interviewed with some of Microsoft's top people three times. I flunked the interviews based on lack of certain experience and screwing up on the whiteboard, not because I don't have a degree. One interview I had lasted 4 hours and was back -to-back non-stop whiteboard and interrogation. If the degree was a deal breaker I would have not made it into the door.
I have no desire to live in California and many of the large IT companies are starting to move their operations to Seattle, Texas and North Carolina because of how astronomical the living expenses are. Most software developers live in poverty in the Bay Area. Your 100,000 salary in Mountain View puts you at the poverty line. It use to be that being a software guy in the Bay Area was liking living in nirvana. Now your plumbers, electricians and other tradesman in other cities live a more luxurious lifestyle than software guys. Sadly, it seems that Seattle with its rapidly rising cost of living is starting to follow suit with the Bay Area. I think the one advantage Seattle has is that all the IT companies are in the city rather than in some boring, suburb that is 30 miles from anything considered interesting. Nonetheless, your $100,000 salary doesn't go too far even in Seattle. Thankfully, Washington still doesn't have a state income tax, but all the other taxes are starting to make things difficult with the rising housing costs.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 05-01-2017 at 05:37 PM..
I appreciate people's advice here and I am reviewing all my options. I've been looking at places in Everett, Tacoma, Olympia, etc but I am getting sticker shock as these places are a bit cheaper Even in Tacoma now seems to be almost on par with some neighborhoods in Seattle, especially in the parts of Tacoma I want to live. What is the point of living in nasty neighborhood in East or South Tacoma so I can save $300/mo when I could pay almost the same amount and live in Rainier Beach which has actually been getting nicer and nicer. I've not ruled out Rainier Beach either actually, but even South Seattle is becoming very expensive. I am almost priced out of neighborhoods like Beacon Hill.
I am going to look into renting in Snohomish county somewhere, as the prices don't seem to be much more than Tacoma or Olympia, but it is still within commuting distance should I find a job in Seattle or Eastside. As well, I feel Snohomish county is still safer place to live than Tacoma or South Seattle. I'm guessing I will have to find some type of part-time work of sorts. Maybe, have to look into Uber or something. I don't want to work a $12/hr factory job building computers. I am also looking at offering IT services, but doing freelance software work (like Upwork) is very tough these days with all the people hiring cheap labor overseas.
I'd like to find a roommate, but it is a challenge, because I am not super liberal, in my late 30s, male and have a decent gun collection. Not to mention I have a lot of furniture and stuff that would have to be stored. I already have one storage place back in Idaho containing a lot of my other life long possessions. Thankfully, my storage in Idaho is very cheap. I would be open to finding a roommate, but it seems hard to find ones who can tolerate someone of my background. I am fairly accepting and tolerant person, but have not had a roommate situation since my college days years ago.
My head is spinning and I am hoping I can find a way to make things work here in Seattle because I know there is so much potential once I get this 6 months to year of studying in.
ELko, as far as applying at Boeing that is on the table. However, Boeing is still a large corporation and still will have the same testing criteria with algorithms and long 4 hour interrogations as many of hte other large corporations here. Just because it is a mechanical company doesn't mean the IT department doesn't operate as all other IT departments do. I have even had recruiters talk to me about interviewing at Starbucks and even Starbucks has rigorous whiteboarding examinations during their interviews.
As the other person said here, the companies here have very strict and stringent criteria for hiring people even for crappy jobs here. I am amazed at all the junior developers here who are struggling to find work, even people with Comp Sci degrees from prestigious universities like University of Washington. Then there is the large bombardment of these Coding BootCamp graduates that complicate everything as well. Now everyone and their mother is a Ruby on Rails developer, although most of these grads have had little experience in the industry and are coming from other careers.
Don't get me started on coding interviews. :P They rarely find the people they're looking for because most of those problems are aimed at new grads, not professionals who have been in the field for ~10 yrs. There is only one company where I have ever had an interview coding question that was even remotely related to the job I'd be doing. When I have a coding interview coming up, I brush up with a book called Cracking the Coding Interview, and a website called Leetcode. I write my solutions on paper before I code them up - it's good practice for white board coding, and it's a great way to check how good my syntax is when my editor isn't highlighting all my sins.
I used to make people fix a real piece of buggy code (with bad variable names and clunky style).
In case you aren't already pursuing it, definitely consider contracting - the interviews usually aren't as rigorous, you can get very decent pay (sometimes better than you would as a full timer), and depending on the position - I've seen plenty of people convert to FTE. No doubt, there are plenty of dead-end contracting jobs, but there are also plenty of well-paid mercenaries.
ELko, as far as applying at Boeing that is on the table. However, Boeing is still a large corporation and still will have the same testing criteria with algorithms and long 4 hour interrogations as many of hte other large corporations here. Just because it is a mechanical company doesn't mean the IT department doesn't operate as all other IT departments do. I have even had recruiters talk to me about interviewing at Starbucks and even Starbucks has rigorous whiteboarding examinations during their interviews.
You do have a dilemma on your hands, RotseCherut, and Puget Sound house pricing is complicating things. I know you don't want to, but my new home, Kansas City, is adding jobs. I do not know a lot of the techie ones, as I'm in Allied Health and have my own search going on right now. But an Amazon is coming in on the Kansas side (distribution center, though) and you might find something in your field at Cerner. Cerner is growing great guns over here. Kansas City is the City of Fountains - there's some great architecture in the buildings and beautiful trees, grass and parks everywhere. The Mrs. and I like it a lot more than we ever thought we would in KC.
I've had good interviews with a hospital in Tucson and Colville, WA, and a contractor in a mid-MO hospital that is starting back up a Sleep Lab. Apparently an offer is coming in for me any day now on that one. It is a good one, but it will be working on more patient's than the AASM suggests - 3:1 patient to tech ratio. A 2:1 patient to tech ratio is more do-able and safer for patient care as well. So elkotronics is busy studying for the RPSGT Exam and looking for work as well.
I wish you well in your endevours, RotseCherut. I think you'll eventually find what you're looking for because it sounds like you have the drive to succeed.
Don't get me started on coding interviews. :P They rarely find the people they're looking for because most of those problems are aimed at new grads, not professionals who have been in the field for ~10 yrs. There is only one company where I have ever had an interview coding question that was even remotely related to the job I'd be doing. When I have a coding interview coming up, I brush up with a book called Cracking the Coding Interview, and a website called Leetcode. I write my solutions on paper before I code them up - it's good practice for white board coding, and it's a great way to check how good my syntax is when my editor isn't highlighting all my sins.
I used to make people fix a real piece of buggy code (with bad variable names and clunky style).
In case you aren't already pursuing it, definitely consider contracting - the interviews usually aren't as rigorous, you can get very decent pay (sometimes better than you would as a full timer), and depending on the position - I've seen plenty of people convert to FTE. No doubt, there are plenty of dead-end contracting jobs, but there are also plenty of well-paid mercenaries.
This is great advice Kayela.. I actually have the Cracking the Coding INterview book and if you think it is worth its weight in gold, maybe I will read it too. I also have Elements of a Programming Interview book and several other books on Algorithms. Currently I am reading the Segewick book on ALgorithms because it is very easy for me to follow, comprehensive and the fact the examples are in Java rather than pseudocode make it easier for me to comprehend and implement. C# and Java syntax is almost identical in most respects.
I agree that these interviews are some strange test/formality you have to overcome to prove you are worthy. However, they pretty much have little to do with showing your skills at the type of job provided. I'm growing tired of the process, but I will give it the best shot I can. SO many jobs have these unrealistic descriptions of demands and then they spend good amount of time just quizzing you on stupid algorithm puzzles, because they know it is just too hard to test you on the 100 different technologies that you partially have to lie about, as not many people can even master the large set of skills I read on some of these crazy job descriptions. I tend to not even read job descriptions sometimes and just talk to the recruiter about what they are really looking for. If a recruiter knows the insides he/she is a person I will invest my time in and these people usually have better connection with the senior team members.
Right now I am studying algorithms, but also trying to master Javascript and build up my ASP.Net knowledge. Most jobs I am seeing are so web heavy. I regret not being able to develop more web software over the years, but that is the way things went.
I am definitely open to contract work and most jobs I am pursuing are 1 year + contracts and contract to hires. Many of the FTE jobs are just to insane and I feel if you are worth keeping most companies will just keep you around one way or another. Being almost 40 (39 next month) , contracting may soon be the only way to go as I hear its harder to get FTE as a developer after 40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkotronics
You do have a dilemma on your hands, RotseCherut, and Puget Sound house pricing is complicating things. I know you don't want to, but my new home, Kansas City, is adding jobs. I do not know a lot of the techie ones, as I'm in Allied Health and have my own search going on right now. But an Amazon is coming in on the Kansas side (distribution center, though) and you might find something in your field at Cerner. Cerner is growing great guns over here. Kansas City is the City of Fountains - there's some great architecture in the buildings and beautiful trees, grass and parks everywhere. The Mrs. and I like it a lot more than we ever thought we would in KC.
Well, I am sure Kansas City has its good poitns and the Midwest has some nice things about it. However, I just think it would be too cold, flat, way too much crime and I don't like tornadoes and wind storms. I'm sure there is some opportunity there and I am sure even a taxi driver probably lives better in Kansas City than an entry level programmer does in Seattle. I remember being a lowly $10/hr landscaper in Eugene, Oregon and renting a nicer apartment in Eugene back in 2000 than the apartment I am renting now. Think I was paying $550/month. I remember renting a nice 700 sq ft apartment in Portland, Oregon right near Hawthorne in the 90s that was so many times nicer than this craphole oversized closet I am paying over $1460/month for now in Seattle.
This is a long shot, but have you thought of going to Israel? You've mentioned it in your profile, & I know there is a tech world, particularly in Tel Aviv, that that might be easier to break into. Then, come back to the U.S. with new experience.
My friend moved her family to Haifa. They were very happy there till her boys hit adolescence & wanted to go to high school in the U.S.
Just a thought.
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