Downtown Seattle (TARGET) bathroom health hazard (apartment, high crime, buying a house)

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by elkotronics

Well said comments on downtown, bergun. Seattle is just another large city in a system of things that is breaking down. It is inevitable, because without strong moral values, infrastructure crumbles. Oh, it might take time, so you think everything's just fine. Watch this thing go down. Glad I'm long gone from Skid-da-ttle.

Or the reverse: Without civilizational infrastructure, not just public bathrooms, but meaningful human-capital investments in mass-transit, education/re-training, general/mental healthcare, affordable housing, economic opportunity, etc., moral (or communal) values collapse as society is reduced to a Social Darwinist, dog-eat-dog, losers-out jungle. What you're seeing, not just in Seattle's downtown, but in downtowns throughout the West Coast, as many continue to move west in search of opportunity, is the piling up of the detritus, hard-luckers and losers, after 35 years of trickle-down benign-neglect. More of the same, as you advise, will only make the pile even higher.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

but in downtowns throughout the West Coast, as many continue to move west in search of opportunity, is the piling up of the detritus, hard-luckers and losers, after 35 years of trickle-down benign-neglect.

The best description of the downtown scene I have heard articulated.

[elkotronics]

Seattle, has allowed all the craziness to happen for years and now we are shocked that the inmates are now running the asylum. Now that's funny!! By electing people without any common sense to political office or voting and/or supporting fantasy type ideals, we're all screwed for the immediate future or until people finally wake up and ditch all the failed policies, hopes and ideals soley based on emotions, not facts, the downtown area is only going to get worse. The downtown area isn't going to "self-correct" by itself... Not now or ever. It's going to take the voting public to finally vote for and support real ideals that are based on facts, not emotions, even if it hurts somebody's feelings to regain control.

For the life of me, I still can't figure out why junkies, criminals and the homeless with violent behavior/mental issues have far more rights than the average working... Tax paying and law bidding citizen in this city.

Growing up in the 70s, downtown Seattle has some issues, like most of 1st Avenue being XXX peep shows and adult theaters. If "I" had the power to return Seattle, for the most part, back to its pre-80s status, I would in a heartbeat because there was still a level of order, which allowed people and businesses to function in a normal manner.

To be honest, the issue involving public restrooms in the downtown area businesses is only the very tip of what is really wrong with downtown Seattle and Seattle as a whole.



Yeah, as I reflect on my comment and bergun's and also pikabike's, I have to add: it's not a West-Coast thing in totality - Kansas City, where I now live, is dipped in territorial crime that goes decades deep. But the difference that I can discern is the city management is more stable and old-school in Kansas City. The inmates are not running the asylum here in this old-school large Midwest city.

Seattle, OTOH - by its very leadership, is crumbling from within. And the stink from that is running amok. To worry about being sued because you're not catering to the drug-infesteds is a sign of deep, tattered, stained sickness. Kansas City and Seattle are both sick, and I know that strong morals are not liked by a wicked 20-teens society, but that is indeed what is crumbling the infrastructures down...worldwide. The Bible is a dirty word these days to way too many. Yeah, take your hand me down world of left-overs, not said snottily, said sadly...in solemn acknowledgement of truth. Bible prophecy.

I know - it hurts to read those words. Breathe them in - deeply breathe them in. Because when the immoral are leading, guess what the results of the pseudo-equation are?

[Thaxter]

Left Seattle in May and live now in Grand Rapids. Nearly every public establishment here has safe, clean, keyless, gender specific restrooms. It's unbelievably clean, orderly, safe, friendly, and decent here compared to Seattle. There is no huge homeless epidemic here and tons of resources for addicts and the poor. It may be because of the many churches here that have public interface and are socially and financially engaged. Most Seattle liberals would probably not like the fact that this very Christian city is doing a much better job than Seattle in feeding and housing the homeless and treating alcoholics and addicts.

[MondoTime]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

If you have to go, those few blocks from the Market are still pretty far to go from Target in a hurry with the traffic and signals.

LOL - this is absurd!

From the Target door to the bathroom at the Market is 1/2 of a short block followed by a full, even-SHORTER block, and down a stairway.

Nobody in his/her right mind would opt for target bathrooms (which almost nobody in their right mind uses) when the option is bathrooms at the Market used by millions of people and patroled by security for that very reason.

I understand that a select few have 'limitations' that way, but for everybody else, would-be Target public restrooms at the downtown Seattle store are just stupid choices.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Thaxter

Left Seattle in May and live now in Grand Rapids. Nearly every public establishment here has safe, clean, keyless, gender specific restrooms. It's unbelievably clean, orderly, safe, friendly, and decent here compared to Seattle. There is no huge homeless epidemic here and tons of resources for addicts and the poor. It may be because of the many churches here that have public interface and are socially and financially engaged. Most Seattle liberals would probably not like the fact that this very Christian city is doing a much better job than Seattle in feeding and housing the homeless and treating alcoholics and addicts.

The solution: Everyone who hates Seattle, move to Grand Rapids! Close the door on the way out.

The two towns are pretty much apples and oranges:

Median Household Income:

Grand Rapids: $41,857 ($22,351 est. per capita inc.)
State: $51,084

Seattle: $80,341 ($50,290 est. per capita inc.)
State: $64,129

Median House/Condo Value and Gross Rent:

Grand Rapids: $122,000 and $830
Seattle: $530,000 and $1,356

Assaults Per 100,000:

Grand Rapids: 439.9
Seattle: 350.2

The Grand Rapids area counts fewer homeless than the Seattle area (800 vs 12,000). Cost of housing could have something to do with it.

[mysticaltyger]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

Or the reverse: Without civilizational infrastructure, not just public bathrooms, but meaningful human-capital investments in mass-transit, education/re-training, general/mental healthcare, affordable housing, economic opportunity, etc., moral (or communal) values collapse as society is reduced to a Social Darwinist, dog-eat-dog, losers-out jungle. What you're seeing, not just in Seattle's downtown, but in downtowns throughout the West Coast, as many continue to move west in search of opportunity, is the piling up of the detritus, hard-luckers and losers, after 35 years of trickle-down benign-neglect. More of the same, as you advise, will only make the pile even higher.

Maybe it's not an either/or but that the breakdown cuts both ways. There used to be social standards/expectations for people. Imperfect, and perhaps overly rigid as they were, those standards did create a more functioning society. Now, we've gone the opposite extreme with "do whatever you feel like". The "do as you please" approach leads to the results you see now. And if there are no basic standards of behavior upheld, people feel like putting money into all the other infrastructure is a waste of their money...because if people aren't held accountable for basic behavioral standards, all the infrastructure in the world won't help as evidenced by what's happening in SF. And I seriously doubt this piece was written by some right wing reporter. (Do those exist?)


Despite money and effort, homelessness in SF as bad as ever - San Francisco Chronicle


The city spent $275 million on homelessness and supportive housing in the fiscal year that ends Friday, up from $241 million the year before. Starting Saturday, that annual spending is projected to hit an eye-popping $305 million.....But, despite all the money and effort, reality on the streets hasn’t improved. In many ways, homelessness in San Francisco is as bad as ever.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by mysticaltyger

Maybe it's not an either/or but that the breakdown cuts both ways. There used to be social standards/expectations for people. Imperfect, and perhaps overly rigid as they were, those standards did create a more functioning society. Now, we've gone the opposite extreme with "do whatever you feel like". The "do as you please" approach leads to the results you see now. And if there are no basic standards of behavior upheld, people feel like putting money into all the other infrastructure is a waste of their money...because if people aren't held accountable for basic behavioral standards, all the infrastructure in the world won't help as evidenced by what's happening in SF. And I seriously doubt this piece was written by some right wing reporter. (Do those exist?)


Despite money and effort, homelessness in SF as bad as ever - San Francisco Chronicle


The city spent $275 million on homelessness and supportive housing in the fiscal year that ends Friday, up from $241 million the year before. Starting Saturday, that annual spending is projected to hit an eye-popping $305 million.....But, despite all the money and effort, reality on the streets hasn’t improved. In many ways, homelessness in San Francisco is as bad as ever.

We arrest and imprison more people per capita than all but one country (the Seychelles) in the world. How does that equate with "do whatever you want"? The difference now is the same people who want to lock every offender up don't want to pay taxes to build and staff more jails/prisons, courthouses, and police stations, let alone fund mental health care and addiction treatment.

I believe we need to enforce the laws, but divert non-violent drug criminals to treatment, training, and housing (which is, in fact, much cheaper than jailing/imprisoning them), while jailing/imprisoning violent and habitual criminals.

[Minntoaz]

Originally Posted by Thaxter

Left Seattle in May and live now in Grand Rapids. Nearly every public establishment here has safe, clean, keyless, gender specific restrooms. It's unbelievably clean, orderly, safe, friendly, and decent here compared to Seattle. There is no huge homeless epidemic here and tons of resources for addicts and the poor. It may be because of the many churches here that have public interface and are socially and financially engaged. Most Seattle liberals would probably not like the fact that this very Christian city is doing a much better job than Seattle in feeding and housing the homeless and treating alcoholics and addicts.

Preach! Goes to show when trying to be super unique and anti-establishment, there is no one left to care or help.

[Minntoaz]

The city spent $275 million on homelessness and supportive housing in the fiscal year that ends Friday, up from $241 million the year before. Starting Saturday, that annual spending is projected to hit an eye-popping $305 million.....But, despite all the money and effort, reality on the streets hasn’t improved. In many ways, homelessness in San Francisco is as bad as ever.[/quote]

Imagine that, enablement propels the cycle. What person wants everything handed to them? At the end of the day, no one.