Seattles Lenin Statue. Remove? (for sale by owner, office, rating)

[eugene_b]

Originally Posted by eightbitguy

The other important thing about this Lenin statue is that it is protest art, it is not meant to glorify Lenin it is meant to portray him in a negative light. That's why it was brought here and saved to begin with.

The short version of the story is that the govt of Czechoslovakia commissioned a statue from a local artist. The artist knew he couldn't refuse as he'd be punished so rather than making a glorifying statue depicting Lenin as an intellectual or man of the people he depicted him as a warmonger surrounded by bomb blasts and flames. It is thought to be the only statue of its king in existence.

A local guy found it when he was other there just after the fall of the USSR and made arrangements to bring it here. He was originally going to display it outside a Czech restaurant but died before it opened. The family put it in Fremont to try to get a buyer, it never sold. Now its used as a catch all anti-Lenin goof. The hands are painted red and he's dressed up for holidays. Rainbows for gay pride, Christmas lights, etc (both things Lenin would hate).

I see your point, yeah, perhaps if presented in this light, it's ok but still personally would prefer things like that to be somewhere else, in some less visible place. Museum is probably an ideal place for this.

Meanwhile, I am looking forward for the time when my parents visit me, will go for a walk and discover that statue there. It will be very very difficult to explain it to them lol. They are the kind who, for instance, get agitated if I wear some random red t-shirt (in addition to them having close and personal experience with toppling Lenin statues back at home).

[MarciaMarshaMarcia]

I enjoy looking at all the birds--t on it as I make my way to my Dr.'s office.

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by eugene_b

Meanwhile, I am looking forward for the time when my parents visit me, will go for a walk and discover that statue there. It will be very very difficult to explain it to them lol. They are the kind who, for instance, get agitated if I wear some random red t-shirt (in addition to them having close and personal experience with toppling Lenin statues back at home).

I understand this completely. There's no way to explain it to Russians from earlier generations. Imagine especially, trying to explain it to a generation that was born before the Revolution or who lived around the borderlands with parents who were pre-Revolution-era. I'm thinking of Seattle's and San Francisco's Harbin contingent. Of course, at this point, they're all gone, but back when the statue arrived in Seattle, there were a few left.

[RotseCherut]

I'm surprised the Seattle city government hasn't demanded an erection of a Fidel Castro statue after his passing. I'm pretty sure Kshama Sawant will demand a statue of her to be built using our tax money to honor her as a savior of all us silly Americans and our evil capitalist system.

All I have to say about Commies is they love their statues..

I can see it now, a muscular female bodybuilder physique Kshama wearing her cap dawning a red star with her fist in the air and in big bold letters "Power To The People" holding the decapitated head of Donald Trump.

[Scrat335]

Originally Posted by RotseCherut

I'm surprised the Seattle city government hasn't demanded an erection of a Fidel Castro statue after his passing. I'm pretty sure Kshama Sawant will demand a statue of her to be built using our tax money to honor her as a savior of all us silly Americans and our evil capitalist system.

All I have to say about Commies is they love their statues..

I can see it now, a muscular female bodybuilder physique Kshama wearing her cap dawning a red star with her fist in the air and in big bold letters "Power To The People" holding the decapitated head of Donald Trump.

Everybody loves symbols. Hell, Andrew Jackson is on the $20 bill. He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of the Cherokee people. They had a functioning civil society and were largely living amongst the European American populace in peace. They had their own homes, farms, saw mills and were well established, civilized.

Too bad, all they got for their efforts was the Trail Of Tears. All I can say about Americans is grow eyes in the back of your head and watch your freaking back

[RotseCherut]

Originally Posted by Scrat335

Everybody loves symbols. Hell, Andrew Jackson is on the $20 bill. He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of the Cherokee people. They had a functioning civil society and were largely living amongst the European American populace in peace. They had their own homes, farms, saw mills and were well established, civilized.

Too bad, all they got for their efforts was the Trail Of Tears. All I can say about Americans is grow eyes in the back of your head and watch your freaking back

I visited Chief Joseph's grave and have a lot of compassion and sadness for the suffering of native peoples. The story of the suffering of the Nez Perce is very hard to bear. I drove through many of the history battle sites of the Nez Perce in Eastern Oregon.

I'm not a big fan of Andrew Jackson or Abraham Lincoln. Both were two-faced, backstabbers and somehow people venerate Lincoln with deity like status. To be honest, Robert E Lee was more respectful to blacks than Lincoln. Lincoln believed black people were inferior but said he was ethically opposed to slavery. Lee believed blacks were every bit as intelligent and capable as white people, but believed they had to be "civilized" into American culture. Lincoln believed blacks were inferior all the way around, yet still promoted emancipation.

Benjamin Franklin was an ok dude as far as I know. You're probably going to dig up a bunch of dirt on him now too Think I will get rid of all my 20s and 5s and just keep 100s around as I don't want these slimy tyrants on my bill. My favorite bill is the $100 bill anyhow .

To be honest, every country has blood on its hands. Many Native American tribes also stole and murdered from each other too. In fact, many tribes allied with the Union soldiers to help fight off being attacked by other tribes like the Blackfoot who they feared even worse than the white people. Sometimes it was a choice between having your land stolen and being relocated to a reservation or just being wiped out all together by your enemy tribe. There are no real good guys, just one group of unscrupulous people getting the better of the other and establishing nations that have become more civil over the generations.

Then again, nobody seems to care about the oppression of the Irish or Chinese which was every bit as bad as slavery, but perhaps not as long lasting. Irish were considered less than the dogs throughout history, but since they were white people it was no big deal that they suffered horrible oppression. Chinese (and Irish too) built our railroads in some of the most horrible conditions imaginable.

And if we demand removal of statues and monuments why don't we start with all the royal families in England, France, Belgium, Spain, Portugal, Holland etc who conquered the world robbing, raping and murdering large numbers of people from a variety of cultures. Some of the things the Spanish empire did were even more atrocious than slavery in USA. Try rounding up entire villages and burning men, women and children on crosses. Or. how about committing the first genocide against Jews in Europe where they rounded up all Jews and burned them alive if they wouldn't convert to Catholicism or if they were caught practicing Judaism. Yet, the Spaniards still venerate and honor their royal family and historical figures who committed far worse atrocities than many of these Civil War figures that people are railing against.

[Scrat335]

Originally Posted by eugene_b

Being born and raised in Eastern Europe, I am sure my opinion can be labeled as very biased but I really can't believe this statue is a thing. A quick way to figure out if this statue can be offensive to some people is to see what people have been doing and are still doing to these statues in the countries that were unfortunate to be drugged into the Soviet Union endevour. I'll do a very overused comparison but you don't put a Hitler statue in a middle of the city because it's part of the history and everything ( and the Jewish people? They are probably just biased... )? For the same reason Lenin statue belongs to museum and not to a city square. Put something inspiring, beautiful or worth celebrating on its place. Just my $0.02.

How about something that provokes thought? Allows another point of view to be seen and heard? Too much for you? Seems to me you don't know a lot about your history. Why did the cold war happen? Why was the Warsaw Pact formed? Why did the Soviet Union not go home?

When it comes to most things you'll find that there's side 1, side 2 and then something both are trying to keep from you. The truth.

[Scrat335]

The short version of the story is that the govt of Czechoslovakia commissioned a statue from a local artist. The artist knew he couldn't refuse as he'd be punished so rather than making a glorifying statue depicting Lenin as an intellectual or man of the people he depicted him as a warmonger surrounded by bomb blasts and flames. It is thought to be the only statue of its king in existence.

I wonder.......... where are the bomb blasts and flames?

[Ruth4Truth]

Originally Posted by Scrat335

Everybody loves symbols. Hell, Andrew Jackson is on the $20 bill. He was responsible for the ethnic cleansing of the Cherokee people. They had a functioning civil society and were largely living amongst the European American populace in peace. They had their own homes, farms, saw mills and were well established, civilized.

Too bad, all they got for their efforts was the Trail Of Tears. All I can say about Americans is grow eyes in the back of your head and watch your freaking back

One thing the history books don't tell you is that there was a gold rush on Cherokee lands. It wasn't just that the settlers wanted more land per se, or that some may have been envious of Cherokee economic successes (not to mention their 90% literacy in their own language, vs. settlers' 10% literacy in theirs). Somebody discovered gold in them thar hills. The Cherokee's case (eventually winning 3 Federal Supreme Court decisions) was toast after that.

[homesinseattle]

Scrat, although they aren't red, what you are seeing on the side (below and next to Lenin's hands) are the sculptor's rendition of flames.