Racism in Seattle (Auburn, Puyallup, South Hill: lawyers, house, top schools)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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The bolded isn't supposed to happen. Hires should meet the basic criteria for the job. I wouldn't want an unqualified engineer designing bridges for the government...
It shouldn't happen, but it does happen, the inevitable result of affirmative action. Look at admissions to elite schools for instance. Blacks and latinos are held to lower admission standards than whites and Asians, and there is ample empirical evidence to support this claim. What liberals are doing is not simply advocating for equality before the law, which is a noble goal. They want equality of result and forced quotas to ensure that there is sufficient diversity. But how much diversity is needed before the liberals are satisfied? If we define diversity as simply non-white, they should be ecstatic that Asian-Americans are 20% of the Ivy League despite being 6% of the U.S. population. Or that Asians are 70% of the elite NYC magnet public high schools. But they are not, because for various reasons, they don't consider Asians as "real" minorities. So they constantly whine whenever an institution does not have enough blacks or latinos. Now, it's one thing if the lack of diversity is due to actual discrimination by employers; that's a different story. But such discrimination is pretty rare in America these days since for starters, vast majority of Americans are not racist, and moreover there is stiff legal consequences to discrimination. However, the lack of diversity in certain areas such as tech, for instance, is simply due to the fact that a relatively low % of CS graduates are black and latino. Hence, it stands to reason that they will be underrepresented at tech firms such as Amazon/Google/Microsoft/Facebook than their overall share of the U.S. population. The same argument holds for women, who make up just 20% of CS graduates, but liberals insist that not having 50% female engineering workforce is somehow tantamount to sexism.
So yeah, all this PC stuff has gone totally overboard, and a lot of Americans are sick and tired of having this crap shoved down our throat by condescending smug liberals (Seattle is full of them). This played a major role in Trump's election victory. Underlying this is of course the rich hypocrisy. Many of these liberals who tell conservatives that we are racist fascist Nazis, live in exclusive white neighborhoods, freak out if their kids' public schools integrate with poor minorities from a different neighborhood, and would never take a third world refugee into their homes. Since they are affluent and sheltered from the consequences of the policies they so vocally espouse, it is easy for them to stand on a soapbox, screaming like a deranged social justice warrior.
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN.
Last edited by Finance2Tech; 11-02-2017 at 12:12 PM..
So yeah, all this PC stuff has gone totally overboard, and a lot of Americans are sick and tired of having this crap shoved down our throat by condescending smug liberals (Seattle is full of them).
I am originally from South Asia and moved to US at a young age and wanted to share my perspective as someone who has traveled extensively and have lived across the country. Firstly, Seattle area is the very accepting to people from all ethnic backgrounds and overt racism is low not just in US context but compared to any places I have visited in Asia or Europe.
Also, US is a country settled by people from all over the world, so fear of foreign people is less here than other nations that are built around a certain ethnicity for thousands of years.
But there is always room for improvement and be better as a society and not just be satisfied because things are not as bad as other places. For example, Affirmative action in college admission may seem unfair at first, but it does have it's own merit. African American population were brought into the continent under harsh conditions and for over 200 years they didn't have the liberty to start their own business, get into fields of science or medicine. They were mostly confined to farms and household work. When they were finally emancipated in the 60s, there was no large scale initiative to get them integrated to the broader economic society. The neighborhood the families lived had bad infrastructure and the worst school districts. So without some sort of help, it's hard for these communities to compete with other groups. Asians in US are generally doing well, because only a selected group of people came from most of those countries. For example: the Indians, Chinese or Koreans coming to US universities are the cream of the crop, so it's easier for them to get to good jobs or grad schools. From my high school only the students with 1400+ in SAT got US student visa..
As for diversity in tech field, it's about fostering an environment from early days, so that students from different ethnicity and gender are attracted to the field. For example there is dis-appropriate amount of Indians in IT even though neighboring countries like Nepal, Srilanka or Bangladesh (who are the same racial group) are not heavily in this sector. This is because Indian government has emphasized the sector and computer education is mandatory from middle school level. I have worked with quite a few talented women and africans in the tech field, but the women were mostly from eastern european countries and the Africans are recent immigrants (not African Americans). This shows that there is nothing inherent among those groups that makes them averse to STEM fields.To increase participation of these groups, the change must happen early and not just at recruitment level.
The key to reducing inequality/bias is to fix the root cause. For example, investment is needed in inner city school districts so that african and latino population get the chance early on to have a better life. Similarly, in rural south and rust belt in mid west, there should be investment in technical schools, so that the european american population who were involved for decades in lower end farming and manufacturing get to acquire skills for the 21st century. Once the groups are educated and empowered, the associated stereotype will automatically whither away with time.
Last edited by uniquetraveler; 11-03-2017 at 11:23 AM..
The key to reducing inequality/bias is to fix the root cause. For example, investment is needed in inner city school districts so that african and latino population get the chance early on to have a better life. Similarly, in rural south and rust belt in mid west, there should be investment in technical schools, so that the european american population who were involved for decades in lower end farming and manufacturing get to acquire skills for the 21st century. Once the groups are educated and empowered, the associated stereotype will automatically whither away with time.
Of course, this is the rational solution. But unfortunately, the trend has been in the opposite direction: dis-investment in the public schools via school voucher programs, more middle- and upper-class parents taking their kids out of public schools, except in wealthy communities, and so forth. The type of people who voted for our current president are not going to vote for any measure that would support economic empowerment of inner-city kids. You can understand the dilemma better, now, perhaps.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-03-2017 at 12:29 PM..
Of course, this is the rational solution. But unfortunately, the trend has been in the opposite direction: dis-investment in the public schools via school voucher programs, more middle- and upper-class parents taking their kids out of public schools, except in wealthy communities, and so forth. The type of people who voted for our current president are not going to vote for any measure that would support economic empowerment of inner-city kids. You can understand the dilemma better, now, perhaps.
Do you know which public school districts spend the most per student? It's the cities, not the suburbs. Newark public schools has the highest spending per student in the entire country, at $23,946. We have been pumping money into these schools for a long time but to no effect. The problem is not the lack of funding but rather cultural. The breakdown of the 2-parent household, lack of emphasis on education, turning to crime, etc., have all been far more consequential than funding.
School vouchers, although imperfect, are necessary because it allows talented kids in crappy schools to receive access to better education.
^^ There is merit to what both of you are saying. Just pouring in money to inner public school may not work if the holistic environment around the community is not changed. Also, the cultural issue has a historical reason. A community enslaved and confined to farms and factories for 200 years cannot become enlightened and pro education within few decades. Imagine an african american family in the 60s, they never saw their parents or relatives in an environment that fosters education or intellectual discussion (home libraries, access to social clubs etc.), moreover they didn't have the social safety net via wealthy family members. So naturally their parenting style was rough and it cascaded to next generation and so forth. It just became a vicious cycle which made it harder for following generation to come out of it..
I don't have a solution to the issue, but maybe creating more basic manufacturing/ service jobs for these communities, community out reach against violence and drug addiction and investment in sports options like indoor gyms, tennis courts etc. (to divert against social influence) can help. Also, participation and encouragement of their own community members who have been successful in moving out to professional jobs can help change the mindset.
The same goes for poor european american communities in rural south. Some are surprised that why they don't they go to college and get a STEM degree and move to cities with high paying tech jobs (which will reduce dependency on foreign talent). It's easier said than done.. A community that is so used to a way of life cannot change magically without proper incentive and general lifestyle change around them.
Do you know which public school districts spend the most per student? It's the cities, not the suburbs. Newark public schools has the highest spending per student in the entire country, at $23,946. We have been pumping money into these schools for a long time but to no effect. The problem is not the lack of funding but rather cultural. The breakdown of the 2-parent household, lack of emphasis on education, turning to crime, etc., have all been far more consequential than funding.
School vouchers, although imperfect, are necessary because it allows talented kids in crappy schools to receive access to better education.
+1 To this post. I am not a fan of most forms of affirmative action at all and even feel it is actually racist in some ways at its core. Giving advantages to a certain group of people, but not others, based on race.
My ancestors, Jewish, came from very disadvantaged, poor and oppressed background. My great grandfather came to this country with nothing but the cap on his head and rags on his back. He had to flee Belarus because of how horrible and oppressive it was. Many of his relatives were killed even before the Holocaust wiped out his village. WHen he came to America there was days he would not eat much, because food was not plentiful. He was a farmer, roofer, merchant among many other things. Being Jewish in the USA in the 1920s he was not allowed to work all the jobs that other (non-Jewish) people could work and had limited options. Despite the US government not giving him a penny, he broke his back and ended up with a good deal of money before he died. He wasn't rich, but owned a couple gas stations and had a successful business. This is a guy who came here as a poor, starving 4th world (even worse than 3rd world) peasant and wasn't given any free health care, free schooling, financial aid, food stamps and wasn't even allowed to attend most universities. People should read about the "Jewish Quota" which limited the number of Jews allowed into universities in USA. He basically lived what many would call the American dream, even as an oppressed minority.
My grandfather grew up in the Depression and lost his mother in the flu epidemic. His parents were impoverished, starving immigrants from Ukraine. Being the son of a street fish seller, he started with not a penny and nobody gave him a single penny. This man grew up in Brooklyn waiting in food lines. He worked his a** off as a mechanic over the years and then eventually bought his own motorcycle dealership, saved his money, lived a simple and modest life. Also, he made some good investments. He died with a million in the bank and nobody gave him a damn penny and he didn't even get a college education. While serving our country in WWII visiting Virginia, he was told he was not allowed in certain businesses or parks because he was a Jew. But, I guess since he was not a darker skin minority its irrelevant.
Oh, did I mention the KKK burned down several Jewish synagogues in our country, but nobody even bothers talking about that. How about Jewish people getting reparations for some of the wrongdoings and oppression of the past? How about during the Civil War when General Grant was going to deport all the Jews in Tennessee to Europe, since he said they are not "Real Americans".
My feelings are that living in the past and all the affirmative action and advocating that people can achieve less because they are "disadvantaged" is just a way to enable people to not work hard and also programs and brainwashes these people to feel they are inferior. If people want to go to a good university they should work as hard as everyone else. Many groups of people suffered horribly and nobody gave them a free ride or easy pass to move to the top. I've traveled all over the world and have seen people who are truly, deeply disadvantaged and oppressed. African American people today have actually much more opportunities, potential, resources and every much ability as most other people to achieve as anyone else. If they have the desire they can achieve as much or more as anyone else and do not need government intervention and told how they do not have to meet the same standards as other groups of people. This is societal programming at its worst and its actually worse for African Americans, in my opinion. There are people all over the world who would kill to have the opportunities that African Americans have.
As far as oppression, the Chinese, Irish, Jews, etc suffered some horrible oppression in this country. Yet, these people do not get the special privileges or affirmative action, financial benefits that other minority groups get who are deemed "worthy" of these benefits or lower standards.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 11-03-2017 at 02:01 PM..
Location: From Sunny Honolulu to Rainy Puget Sound Area
361 posts, read 397,949 times
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I can't speak for the main Seattle area because I live down in the "booney" part of metro Seattle in Pierce County within the vicinity of Auburn/Puyallup area.
I live in Auburn/Puyallup area, and there is not any "blatant" racism here such as slurs.
However, the racism I face here are discreet, passive-aggressive type of racism.
I work in a small hospital in the Puyallup area.
The kind of discreet racism/discrimination that I have faced at work or by the locals within the past 17 months living here were:
1) People being cold to me. Not saying hi or good morning when seeing each other in the hallway or when day-shift people coming to work.
2) Co-workers addressing me as "hey"
3) Co-workers not adding me to their facebook account because I'm not a white person. There is this one racist Ukrainian girl at my workplace who tries to talk down on me and also didn't want me on her facebook account. Same for this white redneck-like guy from Gig Harbor, who also works within my department.
4) When going shopping at some of the sh-tty Safeways here in Auburn or South Hill, people don't even know how to move their shopping carts when I am coming through the aisle. They think "man, why should I get out of the way for this guy who's not white"
If not that, then when standing in line at the check-out, the lady or guy (usually the white locals) don't even bother placing the dividing rubber bar for me.
5) Drivers here don't stop for me when in the cross walk. I already made a thread about this couple months ago, in fact last year, when I was crossing the street to go to work. Same crap I encountered in mall or shopping center parking lots (i.e. parking lot of Fred Meyer in Puyallup....almost got hit by cars when I'm pushing my shopping cart back to my car, which is why I no longer shop there).
6) There are also some neighbors who cold-shoulder me when I see them outside. Similar to the same crap that I face at work.
All in all, I don't know if the northern parts of Seattle or downtown Seattle area is much better than Puyallup/Auburn area. My plan is to move up north some time next year.
SunAndRain808.. Ironically, I am white and people treat me almost exactly the way you describe you are treated. Are you sure that people are treating you like this because you are not white and instead because Washington people tend to be reserved, suspicious, anti-social and passive aggressive? I cannot remember the last time someone said "Good Afternoon" or "Good Morning" to me. Washington people just don't do these type of things very often. Not so often like in the South or Midwest, anyhow. Despite growing up in the Pacific Northwest, I have always been perplexed by the behaviors of people in the Puget Sound. Of all the places I have been, it has been the weirdest.
As far as Eastern European people are concerned, I will say they do have quite a bit of xenophobic traits. I know, being a Ukrainian/Russian Jew and getting a brunt of Anti-SEmitic insults from plenty of them. Although, some of them can be the warmest, friendliest and open-minded people you meet too.
What you just wrote sounds like the treatment many people get in the Puget Sound and is the result of the numerous "Seattle Freeze" type threads you will read on this forum. Being treated unfriendly by people is not confined to
I am treated the way you describe by both white and minority people here in the Puget Sound. People are cold, they don't smile much, don't greet you and are not very good at formal greetings and salutations. The fact your co-workers say "hey" is actually a step up from other work environments. Try being in IT if you want to be surrounded by a bunch of socially awkward, passive aggressive, self-serving group of people.
BTW, I have never seen a place with more interracial dating then in Tacoma. Almost every other black guy I see has a white wife or girlfriend. You will not find this type of situation in areas with deep-rooted racism.
Last edited by RotseCherut; 11-03-2017 at 04:53 PM..
Location: From Sunny Honolulu to Rainy Puget Sound Area
361 posts, read 397,949 times
Reputation: 317
Quote:
Originally Posted by RotseCherut
SunAndRain808.. Ironically, I am white and people treat me almost exactly the way you describe you are treated. Are you sure that people are treating you like this because you are not white and instead because Washington people tend to be reserved, suspicious, anti-social and passive aggressive?
Rotsecherut, well, I don't know about your situation. I moved here to WA from Hawaii last year. I know that a lot of the white coworkers tend to say good morning to each other and even have get-together events outside of work. I "spy" on some of my co-workers' Facebook page, and one of them showed photos of a Halloween party this past week at her house. It's okay, I already accept the fact that I'm not part of the group. Like I've said, there is also this guy at my workplace who has a bunch of other co-workers on his facebook account. However, when I sent him a facebook friend request couple months ago, he simply ignored me. After a month passed by of him not adding me, I realize that he didn't like me, so I don't even bother talking (or looking at) to this guy at work.
I've noticed that the Puyallup/Bonney Lake/Enumclaw/Auburn/ Orting area is very similar to my living experience in the Midwest.
People seem more mean-spirited out here, in this part of Seattle area (some people don't even consider Buckley/Orting/Puyallup part of Seattle).
Quote:
As far as Eastern European people are concerned, I will say they do have quite a bit of xenophobic traits. I know, being a Ukrainian/Russian Jew and getting a brunt of Anti-SEmitic insults from plenty of them. Although, some of them can be the warmest, friendliest and open-minded people you meet too.
Not only is that Ukrainian girl mean to me by talking down on me, but she tends to thumb her nose at me and ignores me when passing by in the hallways. Just like that bigoted guy who refused to add me to his facebook, this girl also did the same to me.
I also get mistreated by this Russian girl, a respiratory therapist, at my workplace, by the way she talks to me and ignores me.
Quote:
What you just wrote sounds like the treatment many people get in the Puget Sound and is the result of the numerous "Seattle Freeze" type threads you will read on this forum. Being treated unfriendly by people is not confined to
I am treated the way you describe by both white and minority people here in the Puget Sound. People are cold, they don't smile much, don't greet you and are not very good at formal greetings and salutations.
I'm not saying every person is bad here. It's just that I can sense the different treatment and communication style that people at work, or even at the shopping malls, have towards me, versus the locals here.
Quote:
BTW, I have never seen a place with more interracial dating then in Tacoma. Almost every other black guy I see has a white wife or girlfriend. You will not find this type of situation in areas with deep-rooted racism.
I do not care about interracial dating for blacks.
I'm an Asian-American male, and dating prospect here in the US is very gloomy for me.
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