HOV lanes (Seattle, Vancouver: how much, luxury, versus)

[nishira]

i find the HOV concept to be quite interesting.

I can totally understand HOV if new lanes were going to be built - however, in driving through greater Seattle area one thing i'm realizing is that HOV ~doesn't~ work here. The notion of taking an already existing lane out of service so that the 5 cars that happen to have extra people can be afforded the luxury of zipping by - while at the same time providing one less lane for the rest of the 95% of seattle drive to negotiate through - i mean what genious thought of this?

many times driving around i find that some drivers are insanely aggressive and very protective of "their" lane but in the reverse, many drivers are insanely slow - i get the feeling that driving in/around seattle is like driving through molasses. people don't pass other cars - they just lull behind them. sometimes, because of the insepid HOV lane, it's incredibly difficult to pass lanes and you find yourself being unsafe by having to skirt from one lane to another just to make any sort of steady progress.

ugh!

and oh, one other mini-rant - who's the genius that thought of putting HOV lanes in the RIGHT lane. that's so frustrating. as soon as you get on the freeway - you're in the HOV lane. The HOV lane is an HOV lane, then it's not, then it is again, then it's not - it's like the freeways own cute little personality disorder .

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by nishira

i find the HOV concept to be quite interesting.

I can totally understand HOV if new lanes were going to be built - however, in driving through greater Seattle area one thing i'm realizing is that HOV ~doesn't~ work here. The notion of taking an already existing lane out of service so that the 5 cars that happen to have extra people can be afforded the luxury of zipping by - while at the same time providing one less lane for the rest of the 95% of seattle drive to negotiate through - i mean what genious thought of this?

many times driving around i find that some drivers are insanely aggressive and very protective of "their" lane but in the reverse, many drivers are insanely slow - i get the feeling that driving in/around seattle is like driving through molasses. people don't pass other cars - they just lull behind them. sometimes, because of the insepid HOV lane, it's incredibly difficult to pass lanes and you find yourself being unsafe by having to skirt from one lane to another just to make any sort of steady progress.

ugh!

and oh, one other mini-rant - who's the genius that thought of putting HOV lanes in the RIGHT lane. that's so frustrating. as soon as you get on the freeway - you're in the HOV lane. The HOV lane is an HOV lane, then it's not, then it is again, then it's not - it's like the freeways own cute little personality disorder .

While I don't want to get into whether or not HOV lanes work, (I happen to believe they do work), or Seattle drivers, the reason some HOV lanes are on the right is so buses don't have to cross several lanes of traffic to exit.

[Ira500]

I think the idea behind carpools is to encourage people to either carpool or to take mass transit. Can you think of a better way to do that?

[nishira]

that's all well and good to encourage people - but there has to be a balance. for me, i have to ask myself - do i really think any significant number of people are choosing to carpool - at least in direction relation to the HOV lanes? personally - and this is just my opinion - but i really doubt it. then i have to consider the balance, how many people are actually taking advantage of the carpool (HOV lane) in comparison to how many people are not taking advantage of the HOV lane, and thus have one less lane to travel in, which creates more traffic, more backups, more stop and go, and when you have more cars on the road for a longer period of time - guess what - more pollution - and isn't pollution one of the major things that HOV was designed to help eliminate.

it's not rocket science here, take any freeway at any time of day where the HOV lanes are operable, whether it's rush hour or even saturday afternoon. compare the number of cars in HOV versus the number of cars in regular lanes. imagine how much faster traffic would flow if more cars were allowed to utilize all lanes. imagine how much less congestion would ensue, and thus less pollution.

[MaikeerinWA]

I don't know what would happen, exactly, if the HOV incentive were to be taken away. But I find it hard to believe that lower pollution and less congestion would be among the outcomes.

Originally Posted by nishira

that's all well and good to encourage people - but there has to be a balance. for me, i have to ask myself - do i really think any significant number of people are choosing to carpool - at least in direction relation to the HOV lanes? personally - and this is just my opinion - but i really doubt it. then i have to consider the balance, how many people are actually taking advantage of the carpool (HOV lane) in comparison to how many people are not taking advantage of the HOV lane, and thus have one less lane to travel in, which creates more traffic, more backups, more stop and go, and when you have more cars on the road for a longer period of time - guess what - more pollution - and isn't pollution one of the major things that HOV was designed to help eliminate.

it's not rocket science here, take any freeway at any time of day where the HOV lanes are operable, whether it's rush hour or even saturday afternoon. compare the number of cars in HOV versus the number of cars in regular lanes. imagine how much faster traffic would flow if more cars were allowed to utilize all lanes. imagine how much less congestion would ensue, and thus less pollution.

[70Ford]

WSDOT - Washington State Freeway HOV System Common Questions

Studies show that many people who aren’t usually on the regular freeway lanes during rush hours would switch to driving alone if the lanes were no longer reserved for HOVs --including many of the people who are currently busing, carpooling, and vanpooling. This would quickly result in another clogged lane.

An example of this was the HOV pilot project in Vancouver, WA. An HOV lane operated on southbound I-5 from 2001 until 2005 during the morning commute. Although the project met most of its performance goals, other circumstances resulted in a recommendation by the local Transportation Council to end the pilot. Travel time through this corridor has not improved since the HOV lanes were opened to general traffic.

Reasons for ending the pilot project included insufficient park-and-ride facilities, cutbacks on transit service coupled with an increase in fares, and a lack of connecting HOV lanes into Portland. HOV lanes in Vancouver may be revisited when plans for the Columbia River Crossing and HOV lanes into Portland are finalized.

[nishira]

very informative article actually - thank you. it's interesting that 520 is the only freeway that has the HOV on the outside lane (thank gosh it's the only freeway with such a setup). Also interesting is that (as per that article) - once the new bridge is completed, they are going to shift the HOV lane to the inside both, on the bridge, and on the rest of 520 - so they must realize it's kinda a stupid idea to have it on the outside. I think to have an HOV lane where drivers have to slow down and speed up because of incoming and outgoing traffic - is sort of counterproductive.

the study is interesting (about what would happen if the HOV lane was removed) but but it's one study. i'm not an engineer nor do i have the perspective of say, a city planner - someone w/access to traffic patterns and a bigger traffic picture than i myself could possibly be priivy to but that having been said, i'm still hard pressed to believe that the HOV lane in the seattle area is doing more good then harm - not when i'm driving on a saturday afternoon, traffic is stuck in a stop and go pattern, while the HOV lane sits there, virtually unutilized.

[seattlerain]

Originally Posted by nishira

I think to have an HOV lane where drivers have to slow down and speed up because of incoming and outgoing traffic - is sort of counterproductive.

The reason for some of the HOV lanes being on the right is so that buses won't have to cross several lanes of traffic to exit or enter the freeway.

On sections of freeways where it is possible to do so and where there is no bus service the HOV lanes are on the left.

[cobolt]

From what I've seen, the HOV lanes, particularly on SR16/Narrows Bridge, go unutilized for the most part. Those lanes are mostly empty, while you have backups of single driver vehicles getting bottled up. It simply doesn't encourage carpooling.

[70Ford]

It does encourage revenue from HOV violators, though.

Then again, congestion restricts revenue. Sort of a toss up.