Public Transportation in Seattle (Redmond, Othello: apartments, condo, vs)

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I've never heard this idea that public transit is only for the poor. In the Bay Area, everyone commutes on transit, too: lawyers, engineers, and other professionals. Always have. I imagine it's similar in NYC. Maybe all these areas are exceptions?

I think that large cities are the exception. In many mid-sized cities I think transit is more commonly used by the poorer and disabled residents. There can be a certain stigma to riding the bus. It's a shame really.

[jakebarnes]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

On the buses I take ever day to work in Seattle and back we never see the poor. They are people living in Issaquah Highlands, Sammamish and Snoqualmie Ridge with employer subsidized Orca cards. Since the "free downtown" ended, we don't ever see people going part way across town any more. The first few may get off at Mercer island, then a few at Eastgate, the rest Issaquah Transit Center.

Well commuter buses from well-to-do areas are going to be a little different. The experience on the eastside Sound Transit buses is different, they even have nicer seats than city buses.

Try taking the 120 or the Rapid Ride E and you will see poor people.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

I've never heard this idea that public transit is only for the poor. In the Bay Area, everyone commutes on transit, too: lawyers, engineers, and other professionals. Always have. I imagine it's similar in NYC. Maybe all these areas are exceptions?

How are the Bay Area or NYC typical of anywhere but there. There is a well-known stigma relative to "bus riders" (specifically, not "transit users") in many parts of the country. Try Vegas, for instance, or just about any other overly car-centric city.

In general, bus stigma is the belief that people who ride city buses are a lower class of people than those who drive their own cars. Margaret Thatcher, former Prime Minister of Great Britain, once famously stated that a man who still found himself riding buses after his mid-twenties could count himself a failure. By making that statement she vocalized the bus stigma that works to limit transit ridership in many cities by fomenting a belief that only those with no other choice – the “losers” of society – ride the bus.

https://www.thoughtco.com/how-to-com...stigma-2798601

https://www.citylab.com/solutions/20...-america/2510/

» The bus stigma: Why it exists, and should we care? SSTI

[Jiff]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

The "pushback" is from the way that Sound Transit has calculated the tax. When the voters overwhelmingly approved paying the additional taxes, they (we) expected the part based on the value of our cars to be from Blue Book/NADA values, not a big deal and worthy. Instead, they used an old formula from 1990 that inflates the value far beyond what anyone could ever sell it for, and when people started getting their registration renewal notices they went (understandably) nuts. Some people saw their registration fees triple. Our doubled on two of the 3 cars.

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle...gher-tab-fees/

Regardless of how ST calculates the tax, they still need the same billions of dollars. They'd raise the percentage to make up for the lower Blue Book value, raise the sales tax or raise the property tax. If you're vehicle heavy, maybe you're paying an inordinate amount. Ironic in that those with more vehicle value are probably less likely to use transit.

I just got my tabs bill for a 2016 Escape: $415/yr. It includes $311 for RTA. I figure, with my 2010 F150 and sale and property tax, ST is getting about $1200/yr from us. Thankfully I'm escaping the RTArea to Camano Island next week and that $415 will drop below $100.

I did benefit from transit when I commuted from Lynnwood to downtown Seattle for 34 years, but I think that the benefit of ST3 does not justify the cost to 90% of those in the RTArea. Fine. I'm in the camp of those that believe bad transportation will help to slow population growth in the Sound area.

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

In the Bay Area, everyone commutes on transit, too: lawyers, engineers, and other professionals. Always have. I imagine it's similar in NYC. Maybe all these areas are exceptions?

Seattle is more like San Francisco, NYC, Chicago, Washington DC, and Boston when it comes to similar demographics for all commuters vs. public transit commuters. Seattle is the outlier, in that it is the only city in this group without an extensive rapid-transit rail/subway system.

For instance:

San Francisco:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (6.3%); Public Transport. Commuters (7.9%)

NYC:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (8.2%); Public Transport. Commuters (8.7%)

Seattle:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (7.2%); Public Transport. Commuters (8.4%)

But:

Portland (OR):
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (9.6%); Public Transport. Commuters (12.8%)

Denver:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (9.6%); Public Transport. Commuters (18.5%)

Las Vegas:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (7.9%); Public Transport. Commuters (18.6%)

Minneapolis:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (11.2%); Public Transport. Commuters (20.0%)

Atlanta:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (9.6%); Public Transport. Commuters (21.2%)

Dallas:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (10.8%); Public Transport. Commuters (22..3%)

Los Angeles:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (11.1%); Public Transport. Commuters (22.4%)

Austin:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (10.9%); Public Transport. Commuters (24.0%)

Houston:
Living in Poverty: All Commuters (11.6%); Public Transport. Commuters (24.5%)

Who Uses Public Transportation in Your City?

Too bad that data isn't broken out for just bus commuters, rather than all public transport. commuters (including rail commuters).

[GraceKrispy]

I love public transit. I'm a huge fan. That being said, I'd love to see some serious improvements.

I can't compare to other major cities because I haven't lived in them. I work for a few different employers. One charges $50/month for unlimited transit. Not bad- cheaper than a monthly pass out of pocket. My other employer gives me an orca card (unlimited) basically for no charge (I actually make money on the deal by using transit to go to work). So the cost is fabulous.

I only occasionally ride the link because it's not on any of my regular commutes. I'm excited for it to come to the Eastside, but bummed that it's not an extension from the University across 520 as I originally thought it might be. I don't know how convenient it will be for me going over 90 and heading into downtown Seattle.

How realistic is it to rely completely on public transport really depends on where you live and what your needs are. I live somewhere with pretty frequent bus service and I head somewhere with pretty frequent bus service. I I do have to take 2-3 buses to get where I'm going, but they all arrive frequently enough on the weekdays to make it still more convenient, and way cheaper with bridge tolls and parking costs, than driving. Where I used to live, it was less convenient because I had to travel to get to a place where I could take the bus.

That being said, I have to drive the car when I (rarely) travel to sites outside the immediate Seattle area for work and for travel to places that aren't served by the bus. And, of course, for traveling outside the region. In other words, I rarely have to drive.

On the weekends (or later at night) when I have to travel to work, it's much less convenient and I have fewer options. So I'm more likely to need to use the car on the weekends.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by Jiff

Regardless of how ST calculates the tax, they still need the same billions of dollars. They'd raise the percentage to make up for the lower Blue Book value, raise the sales tax or raise the property tax. If you're vehicle heavy, maybe you're paying an inordinate amount. Ironic in that those with more vehicle value are probably less likely to use transit.

I just got my tabs bill for a 2016 Escape: $415/yr. It includes $311 for RTA. I figure, with my 2010 F150 and sale and property tax, ST is getting about $1200/yr from us. Thankfully I'm escaping the RTArea to Camano Island next week and that $415 will drop below $100.

I did benefit from transit when I commuted from Lynnwood to downtown Seattle for 34 years, but I think that the benefit of ST3 does not justify the cost to 90% of those in the RTArea. Fine. I'm in the camp of those that believe bad transportation will help to slow population growth in the Sound area.

What an odd coincidence, we have a 2014 Escape and a 2017 F150! The Escape was $370, the truck we just recently bought and I don't remember what that part of it was. I actually do use transit 4 days a week (bus) but the ST3 that I'm paying for now won't help me at all since I'll be retired by the time it reaches anywhere close, and most likely will move a bit farther out as you did.

[Jiff]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

What an odd coincidence, we have a 2014 Escape and a 2017 F150! The Escape was $370, the truck we just recently bought and I don't remember what that part of it was. I actually do use transit 4 days a week (bus) but the ST3 that I'm paying for now won't help me at all since I'll be retired by the time it reaches anywhere close, and most likely will move a bit farther out as you did.

Ha, fellow Forders. We really like are F150 and Escape, especially the SYNC3 in the Escape with built-in navigation.

We mentioned to our realtor that we should promote that Light Rail is coming to Lynnwood TC, a mile from our house, in 2023. We both chuckled and said, "yeah right, more like 2030." Our buyers, in their early 30s, will probably see those trains at the TC before they retire. If so, they will have lost their express bus ride to downtown Seattle and have to endure several stops on a crowded uncomfortable rail thing that will dispatch them down in one of the few tunnel stops, negating their choice to take a bus down 5th or 2nd with several curbside stops.

[Hemlock140]

I once took the bus from downtown Seattle to Bickford Ave in Snohomish after work when my wife’s Escape was being serviced, and it was a nightmare. Even the express lanes were jammed up and that was at 2:30. With one transfer it took 2-1/2 hours. Lynwood and othe points north really need light rail.

[Jiff]

Light rail to Lynnwood? Not worth the money. For your trip to Snohomish by bus, it would have been faster if they'd just return the HOV requirement to 3 persons. Much cheaper than billions to build rails.