Seattle what is the big deal? (Republic, Clinton: live, price, gym)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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If you get there early enough it's not as bad yes, but peak times I've never seen trails as crowded as those. Parking can be impossible. The cars lining roads to trails is something else, super dangerous. We generally find trails that are harder/longer so fewer people.
Have you ever seen I-70W out of Denver on Friday afternoons and weekends? At least we have recreational opportunities in every direction.
I still don't understand how/when/where politics comes up in conversation, that this would be such an issue for people. I don't recall ever hearing or being involved in a political discussion with anyone, ever, in 20+ years of living in Seattle. Not even when I was a UW student.
Well part of it is just the laws/regulations passed by the city, protesting as a hobby (more of a millennial thing TBH, outside of seattle that is), and the reporting from our local news media. To preface I wouldn’t be able to stand living in the Deep South for the same reasons on the other side of the fence, but politics is something I’ve heard mentioned many times in passing conversations at school and work in Seattle.
I am just pointing out that for seattleites to suggest they aren’t equally as close minded and slanted, in the other direction of course, as bible thumpers in the south is very hypocritical and ridiculous. Harmony is found in balance, not lopsidedness
I grew up in Oregon and lived in Portland a good chunk of my life (appx 12-15 or so years in Portland on and off) and I have a lot of family in Portland. I will say that I enjoy Portland as a city much more.. The people are friendlier and more hip, there is more activities for people to do at every odd hour, the city has neighborhoods with contrasting character (although this has changed so much in last 10 years), better restaurants for every price bracket, better variety of micro-roasters (Seattle coffee is very corporate) and a general more chill, laid-back vibe.
However, with that being said, I will say Seattle has significantly more beautiful scenery than Portland, even though Portland has a very beautiful backdrop, SEattle being surrounded by the water, Olympics , Cascades and with Mount Rainier in the backdrop is significantly more scenic than just Mount Hood, St. Helens and the Columbia and WIllamette rivers running through the city. As well, Seattle offers much more in the ways of jobs, careers and it shows in the mentality and mindset of the people. Whereas Portland is the more chill, laid-back city, Seattle is the workaholic, no-nonsense big business city and even the coolest looking hipster in Seattle may be a 70 hour a week, money hungry IT worker who probably hasn't partied or had any fun in years.
Seattle is a city for serious people who have desires to make it to the top. Portland is the city where young people go to retire .. Ok, it is a little bit of an exaggeration, but not so far from the truth. Portland's roots is of a blue collar town with a significant logging presence. Now, it is trying to be a somewhat modern city, but has a nutty city government that wants to make it an extension of Stalingrad coupled with Woodstock. However, the rising costs of living, insane taxes and lack of opportunities means it is getting harder and harder to enjoy the good life in Portland as we did in the past. Also, the big influx of Californian money and people bringing their large bank accounts with them to buy up all the pristine property has hit Portlanders very hard.
Seattle City Government cannot enact all its insane ultra left-wing policies as easily as Portland can. It has turn Portland into a complete crapshow in many ways. You have an even worse homeless problem (as if Seattle's wasn't insane enough), inadequate road system that has even worse traffic than Seattle (although you usually don't travel as far). Seattle has huge mega-companies who somewhat keep the state and city governments in Washington from going too crazy (although this is changing). Oregon, on the other hand, is an almost socialist state and has the highest tax burden of almost any state in the country. Forbes rated Oregon as the worst state next to Hawaii to start a business. Is that a rating you should be proud of? I had to flee Oregon for this reason.
Back in the 90s, $800/mo could get you a big house in beautiful Southwest Portland and the jobs paid decent enough and you could make a living. Now, like Seattle, Portland is becoming hard to live and Portland doesn't have the big opportunities that Seattle has.
I really miss Oregon and wish I could live in Portland again. However, being a small business person I would be raped and killed with the taxes in Oregon. Seattle is now trying to push the communist like legislation they have in Oregon and with Seattle's even more insane cost of living and paychecks that are not matching living costs, I will probably not be able to survive much longer in the Puget Sound. I cannot live in a place where $80,000 a year means you are living near the poverty line and stuck in a tiny apartment. The 10% state tax in Oregon is a deal breaker for me. Now, Oregon will be taxing car purchases with a huge sales tax. Of course, Washington has implemented their "High speed rail" tax on car registration that is probably even worse (in addition to 10% sales tax), but as of now, the lack of state income tax means I can live somewhat comfortably in the outer Puget Sound.
That is the thing, Portland has jobs now. It's crazy, right!? We're below the national unemployment. Certainly, Intel and Nike are established companies like Microsoft. But, LAM Research, startups on the Eastside, Tinder, etc. Are all making their presence felt. It isn't an optimal job market, but it is wayyyyyy better now a days. (I took a 20K salary increase to come North, and have found that I lost on that deal!)
I would argue, seeing Mt. Hood in any direction, the George, and Multnomah falls 15 minutes out of town are significant spots that rival a lot Seattle has to offer. The Sound, is nice. But, once your inland, you aren't really that impressive. Also, I'm a native Oregonian, I need to go to the wilderness every year when the sun comes out for 2 weeks. That or they will suspend my license.....
Portland is laid back.. and accepting.. it is also culturally the standard bearer for the PNW lifestyle. It's way more "weird" than Seattle. For better or worse..
Taxes are a bummer, I feel the same way with a sales tax. The Vancouver dilemma continues...
I think you can believe the hype about retiring early, but I think Portland is more scrappy than Seattle. You need to have a great restaurant to survive. Your startup needs to have a solid business plan to attract dollars out there. Generally, it is harder to get ahead, as noted.
I see Seattle well into SFO stage. A bland central city for the wealthy, and the hoi polloi in the outskirts. Portland is quite a bit behind in that evolution. It may reach that place, within our lifetimes, but for now it has minor problems in comparison. Plus, it is actively working on them early (That whole, tax us a lot to build Light rail to nowhere plan). If they get HQ2 (Not likely, my money is ATL or Boston), they'll be in a much better position to deal with the invasion.
And yes, even compared to NYC. The homeless problem in Portland is incredible. Hit Skidmore about 3 am to watch the police roust 400 people sleeping under the bridge. I think Seattle's homeless numbers are actually the same as Portland's....
Jobs, Jobs, Jobs & people searching for a mythical place that doesn't exist anymore. Romanticizing Seattle like some do Paris. The long drive of human nature to head West in this country.
I lived in Seattle when I was in high school. Seattle has rain and/or drizzle 150 days a year. That's why it's so green. People don't even bother with hats or raincoats or umbrellas, they just get used to being wet and damp most of the time. It's nice in the summer and dreary the rest of the year. I also lived in San Francisco and LA while in high school and college. Finally moved back to my home town of NYC (lived in Brooklyn and Staten Island and worked in Manhattan and Brooklyn) for 35 years. All those other towns are small potatoes. There's only one New York.
I think your NYC plan is a sound goal and something worth working hard at getting there.
I hear a lot of Texas has cheap housing and less and less traffic as everyone there seems to be moving to the PNW.
Go for it!
Puyallup having "more soul".....that says so much......
NYC is a great example... Manhattan and downtown is a tourist show as much as any Broadway play. Nobody actually "lives" there. The markets are dominated by chain stores, the streets are crowded with tourists...
I wouldn't live there. It's ugly, the people are neurotic, the commute is long (the subway was safe and efficient, though), and the weather. But... I can understand. And New Yorkers have civic pride, shared culture, shared belief in their city.
They are in New York F-ing city. Adopt a ridiculous accent, and loiter in the subway. The Burroughs each are lively, and have a different flavor. Certainly living cheek to jowl influences them. I did miss my DGAF PNW attitude though.
Seattle is a sprawl of run down single bedroom houses. It's just a step up from a trailer park, except downtown central. The lack of public transportation and single car commutes, don't allow it to have the same, "we're in this together" spirit of NYC.
Obviously, much like the West Coast, it's all relatively new...
I lived in Seattle when I was in high school. Seattle has rain and/or drizzle 150 days a year. That's why it's so green. People don't even bother with hats or raincoats or umbrellas, they just get used to being wet and damp most of the time. It's nice in the summer and dreary the rest of the year. I also lived in San Francisco and LA while in high school and college. Finally moved back to my home town of NYC (lived in Brooklyn and Staten Island and worked in Manhattan and Brooklyn) for 35 years. All those other towns are small potatoes. There's only one New York.
Completely agree. Seattle is so miserably wet we brush moss off each other as an informal greeting. We go weeks without seeing the sun and in the winter, darkness starts to fall by 4 p.m. There is only one NYC, an exciting dynamic place with amazing weather.
But, what exactly is Seattle's siren call? Just not understanding. I know, a lot of the country sucks (Chicago, Midwest, south). But, seriously, why do you all put up with It? Grinding a paycheck, like in San Fran?
Don't worry. Those of us who live in the midwest don't understand why anyone wants to live on the coasts. I occasionally visit friends and family in the Bay Area and Seattle and Boston and they all try to convince me how awesome those cities are while we sit in traffic for hours to get to their tiny house that cost $750k or pay $10 for a drink at a bar. I'll stay in South Dakota where my commute is 5 minutes, my house costs $150k, and drinks are $3. And there no state income tax here either.
Well part of it is just the laws/regulations passed by the city, protesting as a hobby (more of a millennial thing TBH, outside of seattle that is), and the reporting from our local news media. To preface I wouldn’t be able to stand living in the Deep South for the same reasons on the other side of the fence, but politics is something I’ve heard mentioned many times in passing conversations at school and work in Seattle.
I am just pointing out that for seattleites to suggest they aren’t equally as close minded and slanted, in the other direction of course, as bible thumpers in the south is very hypocritical and ridiculous. Harmony is found in balance, not lopsidedness
But you say your impression in founded mainly on the way the media report things, not on actual conversations you've had with people. So how do you know what your co-workers, neighbors, etc. think? When I lived in Seattle, no one knew my political views, I didn't know theirs (even my friends), and no one cared. It wasn't relevant to work or friendship. We had other things in common that we bonded over.
Don't worry. Those of us who live in the midwest don't understand why anyone wants to live on the coasts. I occasionally visit friends and family in the Bay Area and Seattle and Boston and they all try to convince me how awesome those cities are while we sit in traffic for hours to get to their tiny house that cost $750k or pay $10 for a drink at a bar. I'll stay in South Dakota where my commute is 5 minutes, my house costs $150k, and drinks are $3. And there no state income tax here either.
South Dakota? Ok, then. Stay warm.
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.. Ok, it is a little bit of an exaggeration, but not so far from the truth. Portland's roots is of a blue collar town with a significant logging presence. Now, it is trying to be a somewhat modern city, but has a nutty city government that wants to make it an extension of Stalingrad coupled with Woodstock. However, the rising costs of living, insane taxes and lack of opportunities means it is getting harder and harder to enjoy the good life in Portland as we did in the past. Also, the big influx of Californian money and people bringing their large bank accounts with them to buy up all the pristine property has hit Portlanders very hard. 
