Maybe it could have been a lot worse in Seattle. (George: homes, neighborhoods)

[homesinseattle]

Here's a different way of looking at things. I'll say again clearly that I am NOT and was not supportive of CHOP, but I'm very much in favor of peaceful protest. I think the African American community here (and everywhere) has legitimate grievances about police work/methods.

So, you're sitting around about a month ago as a Seattle elected official. George Floyd is killed, protests escalate quickly, get really big and widespread in Seattle. You realize that the participants aren't just agitators, that many of your citizenry, tech workers, regular people are involved in them. Your police force is stretched thin, responding to massive action on Capitol Hill, Downtown and even (ugh) U Village. Anarchist elements are using the crowds as cover to destroy property, far right elements are probably infiltrating and seeking to create/stoke havoc. Most people are good but there are for sure some bad actors in the mix.

The police locally respond, probably a little too harshly, that doesn't go so well. Things start to go down on Capitol Hill, you think to yourself, "We have to get a handle on this, what to do? Clamp down, get militant, risk stirring things up big time, alienate the (reasonable) citizenry who probably support the rallies but not the violence? Probably a bad idea. So, an epicenter starts to develop in Capitol Hill, right away there are benefits you might not have thought of, most of the participants go there and Downtown calms, there aren't flashpoints all around the city, which makes it easier for police to address/protect other places.

You (the elected officials) start thinking, "how can we help de-escalate this?". You get in conversations about cutting police budgets, having more of an "officer friendly" effort, dialing down the full "military style" police look, that may indeed not be the best vibe in Seattle to project. You allow a "protest zone" to develop, compared to the geographically widespread problems, now you just have (mostly) one area to look after. You mess up by leaving the police station. I would have kept police there but kept their vibe friendly, have them pass out lollipops . So, not a good idea to vacate the station.

But, it happened. After you lick your wounds, you realize (despite the skewed Fox News press) that this "zone" really is mostly peaceful. You figure you'll let it be for a few weeks, establish dialogue with the people inside, make a few reasonable concessions and then let time be your friend. So, here we are a few weeks later, things seem to be winding down. Was the progression of events ideal? Far from it. Maybe, just maybe though, it is working out better than it could have with a bare knuckles police response.

[flyingsaucermom]

So basically, people of Seattle had steam to blow off and now here we are with what you think is the best of all situations?

I suppose..

"bread and circus"... you mention lollipops.. I personally probably would have gone with something a little more substantial than that, but historically speaking giving out something works. Lots of countries depend on the model for getting politicians into office.

Well, I'm glad Seattle has seemed to have worked through its hissy fit. Now I hope they're ready to pay up and put everything back in order.

[Ruth4Truth]

It makes sense, as you present it.

I don't know how the Seattle police handled things, and it's probably not known whether any violent agitators arrested (were any arrested?) were traced to far-right groups. But I'm just going to toss out a bit of info that's been coming out in the aftermath in some other cities. It's really worrisome, who the police secretly sided with. This is why Minneapolis is having to completely deconstruct their police force, re-examine the whole approach to, and concept of, policing, and almost start from scratch to build a policing system that will work for all citizens equitably.

In Albuquerque and Minneapolis, police covertly supported far-right activists. It looks like they may even have collaborated with them; this is still under investigation. In Albuquerque, armed "militia" lined the streets around a park with a historic statue, to protect the statue. Police were overheard on their radio system referring to the armed militia men as "armed friendlies". Police chose to be absent from the scene all one recent morning, as peaceful protestors walked past. That tells you something. So, when one of the "militia" guys lost his cool, knocked down some women, and shot a male protestor, there were no police anywhere in the vicinity. Then when police did show up, they formed a line to protect the armed vigilantes, NOT the man who had been shot and was lying bleeding in the street, nor the women who had been assaulted! They told the peaceful protestors not to engage in vigilantism! Because...um... it's not allowed!

In Minneapolis, SUV's without license plates were allowed to circulate at night throughout neighborhoods near the protest zone, stashing caches of Molotov cocktails and other weapons and incendiary devices in random residents' yards. Informal block-watch groups reported this to police, but got no response. In the days after the worst of the violence, authorities found that many (most, according to some reports) of the people being destructive were linked to extreme-right groups.

Cities are finding that their police forces are not on the same page at all as city leadership. They're also finding, that police unions have so much clout, they can not only keep "bad cops" on the payroll, they can in some cases get city officials voted out, if they try to rein in the police, by trying to put in place accountability for repeated cases of over-use of deadly force.

Scary stuff. I don't know if this is relevant to the Seattle situation, but it's something to keep in mind. To whom are the police ultimately answerable? In some cities, the unions call the shots.

[homesinseattle]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

So basically, people of Seattle had steam to blow off and now here we are with what you think is the best of all situations?

I suppose..

"bread and circus"... you mention lollipops.. I personally probably would have gone with something a little more substantial than that, but historically speaking giving out something works. Lots of countries depend on the model for getting politicians into office.

Well, I'm glad Seattle has seemed to have worked through its hissy fit. Now I hope they're ready to pay up and put everything back in order.

I didn’t say it is the best of all situations, just that it could have been a lot worse.

[Guineas]

It could always be Detroit.

[joestar1]

It's not over yet. Now, armed CHAZ militants are killing people at the border.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/c..._chop_zone_in/

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/c...w_in_the_chop/

[Gaylord_Focker]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

Here's a different way of looking at things. I'll say again clearly that I am NOT and was not supportive of CHOP, but I'm very much in favor of peaceful protest. I think the African American community here (and everywhere) has legitimate grievances about police work/methods.

So, you're sitting around about a month ago as a Seattle elected official. George Floyd is killed, protests escalate quickly, get really big and widespread in Seattle. You realize that the participants aren't just agitators, that many of your citizenry, tech workers, regular people are involved in them. Your police force is stretched thin, responding to massive action on Capitol Hill, Downtown and even (ugh) U Village. Anarchist elements are using the crowds as cover to destroy property, far right elements are probably infiltrating and seeking to create/stoke havoc. Most people are good but there are for sure some bad actors in the mix.

The police locally respond, probably a little too harshly, that doesn't go so well. Things start to go down on Capitol Hill, you think to yourself, "We have to get a handle on this, what to do? Clamp down, get militant, risk stirring things up big time, alienate the (reasonable) citizenry who probably support the rallies but not the violence? Probably a bad idea. So, an epicenter starts to develop in Capitol Hill, right away there are benefits you might not have thought of, most of the participants go there and Downtown calms, there aren't flashpoints all around the city, which makes it easier for police to address/protect other places.

You (the elected officials) start thinking, "how can we help de-escalate this?". You get in conversations about cutting police budgets, having more of an "officer friendly" effort, dialing down the full "military style" police look, that may indeed not be the best vibe in Seattle to project. You allow a "protest zone" to develop, compared to the geographically widespread problems, now you just have (mostly) one area to look after. You mess up by leaving the police station. I would have kept police there but kept their vibe friendly, have them pass out lollipops . So, not a good idea to vacate the station.

But, it happened. After you lick your wounds, you realize (despite the skewed Fox News press) that this "zone" really is mostly peaceful. You figure you'll let it be for a few weeks, establish dialogue with the people inside, make a few reasonable concessions and then let time be your friend. So, here we are a few weeks later, things seem to be winding down. Was the progression of events ideal? Far from it. Maybe, just maybe though, it is working out better than it could have with a bare knuckles police response.

This sounds idyllic, unless you live or own a business in the protest zone. Protest, but please let us carry on with our lives. Just because we find it disruptive does not mean we are racist.

[dav51lin]

sorry no mprotests should be allowed during the pandemic they have spread more disease total bs saying they havnt that and opening back up has caused spread

[tommy64]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

I didn’t say it is the best of all situations, just that it could have been a lot worse.

It's not over, and it certainly can get worse.

Maybe it could have been a lot worse in Seattle - but maybe it shouldn't be happening to begin with. Seattle leadership has been an absolute disgrace for years now. It passed the point of no return long ago.

It's going to take firepower from the National Guard, or a vigilante group of citizens who're backed into a corner with no other options to reclaim (rightfully) their businesses and neighborhood to put an end to this.

CHOP is being driven by a crew of unaccomplished, entitled, misguided, irresponsible thugs with little hope and nothing to lose. They gain nothing by quietly fading away.

If anything good comes of this it'll be the realization that Seattle can no longer ignore lawlessness. If this doesn't wake people up then Seattle is destined to join Detroit or South Chicago as another failed Democrat city.

There is no moral halo of "wokeness" that'll spare Seattle.

[Spottednikes]

Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth

In Albuquerque and Minneapolis, police covertly supported far-right activists. It looks like they may even have collaborated with them; this is still under investigation. In Albuquerque, armed "militia" lined the streets around a park with a historic statue, to protect the statue. Police were overheard on their radio system referring to the armed militia men as "armed friendlies". Police chose to be absent from the scene all one recent morning, as peaceful protestors walked past. That tells you something. So, when one of the "militia" guys lost his cool, knocked down some women, and shot a male protestor, there were no police anywhere in the vicinity. Then when police did show up, they formed a line to protect the armed vigilantes, NOT the man who had been shot and was lying bleeding in the street, nor the women who had been assaulted! They told the peaceful protestors not to engage in vigilantism! Because...um... it's not allowed!

.

Nice fiction story...the fact is the "protesters" chased doen the guy and beat him with a skateboard and one pulled a knife, telling him, "I'm going to kill you", and the guy fell down, pulled out his gun and shot the guy with the knife. Initially he was charged, but after viewing videotape, charges were dropped.