Just convinced my 5th Seattleite to not get the vaccine!! What have you done lately? (places, average)

[jdhpa]

Portugal -

cdc:
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/travel/notices...virus-portugal
Level 4: Very High Level of COVID-19 in Portugal
Key Information for Travelers to Portugal

Avoid travel to Portugal.


NIH on Portugal:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34078348/
Conclusion: COVID-19 has had a major impact on mortality rates in Portugal, as well as in other European countries. The relative impact of COVID-19 on the number of deaths has been greater than on the number of YLL, because COVID-19 deaths occur mostly in advanced ages.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

Proof’s in the pudding. Portugal and Iceland have passed 85 percent vax rates, have hardly any deaths, much fewer cases and have done away with most restrictions that affect people’s lives. Acting for the collective good instead of fighting to the death for our “freedom”. Ironically, they now have more freedom than we do, freedom from much Covid death for one. As we speak, Covid is ravaging non vaccinated areas of the US. It’s sad, really sad. Didn’t have to be this way.

Per worldometer (covid trends) and wiki (population):

Iceland has a population of 356,000. Has had 11722 cases. Roughly 3% of population has had Covid. Only 33 have died. .000009 of the population.

Portugal has a population of 10.28mm. Has had 1067000 cases. Roughly 10.6% of population has had Covid. Nearly 18,000 have died. .0018 of the population.

WA state has a population of 7.76mm. Has had 652000 cases. Roughy 8.4% of the population has had Covid. Little over 7,500 have died. .00096 of the population.

Iceland, not-so-easily-reached, has done really well.

But if I wanted to avoid Covid or dying Covid I would NOT go to Portugal over staying in WA. They have 25% more population, but something like 80% more infection and like 2.5x the deaths.

This is why I won't take your information seriously (not unlike Donkey Crazy). You say something like it's sooooo true but then we figure out that it's sooooo not.

Or at least the information I presented isn't showing it. Keep digging around and I'm sure you'll find some "study" to say that Portugal is the bastion of public health. I'm sure it's out there.

[Botev1912]

Originally Posted by homesinseattle

Proof’s in the pudding. Portugal and Iceland have passed 85 percent vax rates, have hardly any deaths, much fewer cases and have done away with most restrictions that affect people’s lives. Acting for the collective good instead of fighting to the death for our “freedom”. Ironically, they now have more freedom than we do, freedom from much Covid death for one. As we speak, Covid is ravaging non vaccinated areas of the US. It’s sad, really sad. Didn’t have to be this way.

Unfortunately I don't think it's that simple. 97% of adults in the UK have antibodies (either natural or through vaccination) and yet an average of 140 people die every day plus 30K new infections. And what happens after immunity wanes?

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Per worldometer (covid trends) and wiki (population):

Iceland has a population of 356,000. Has had 11722 cases. Roughly 3% of population has had Covid. Only 33 have died. .000009 of the population.

Portugal has a population of 10.28mm. Has had 1067000 cases. Roughly 10.6% of population has had Covid. Nearly 18,000 have died. .0018 of the population.

WA state has a population of 7.76mm. Has had 652000 cases. Roughy 8.4% of the population has had Covid. Little over 7,500 have died. .00096 of the population.

Iceland, not-so-easily-reached, has done really well.

But if I wanted to avoid Covid or dying Covid I would NOT go to Portugal over staying in WA. They have 25% more population, but something like 80% more infection and like 2.5x the deaths.

This is why I won't take your information seriously (not unlike Donkey Crazy). You say something like it's sooooo true but then we figure out that it's sooooo not.

Or at least the information I presented isn't showing it. Keep digging around and I'm sure you'll find some "study" to say that Portugal is the bastion of public health. I'm sure it's out there.

Not saying your numbers are wrong but what’s needed to make an assessment of current conditions is the levels of current infections, death rates, etc. Counting from the start of the pandemic is more an evaluation of how places did pre-vax, based on geographic connections to source infections, lockdown speed and extent, age of population and density of people.

If I were to judge how a country was doing NOW, I’d look at current case rates and fatality rates. E.g NY is going to look worse than KY, let’s say (not that I’ve checked) because of initial Covid numbers, not because of current vax and safety policies.

[jdhpa]

The problem with labelling any country's response as good at this point is the results aren't in. Take New Zealand. They basically walled themselves off from the world, and their numbers look great - today. I assume they don't intend to stay walled off from the world forever. When they start interacting with the world again, covid will work its way through their population as well, and their numbers will start to reflect their demographics. Like Hawaii, they delayed the impact. Eventually, like Hawaii, they will open up and they will be impacted like the rest of us.

[usernametaken]

You would think 10 million people would have died in Africa by now with a 4 percent (or lower) vaccination rate. Most of the continent has not even shut down foreign tourist arrivals for more than a few months max during the past year. Very few strict lockdowns in general.

Yet their total Covid death count is at around 200,000 across 50 plus countries. In a population of 1.3 billion (4 times the US).

There have been 0 Covid deaths amongst my friends and acquaintances who still live in the continent. Anecdotal evidence is all you can trust anymore in this epic fraud.

Africa refuses to fudge its numbers like us.

https://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2021...ination-rates/

[Arcos]

Originally Posted by jdhpa

The problem with labelling any country's response as good at this point is the results aren't in. Take New Zealand. They basically walled themselves off from the world, and their numbers look great - today. I assume they don't intend to stay walled off from the world forever. When they start interacting with the world again, covid will work its way through their population as well, and their numbers will start to reflect their demographics. Like Hawaii, they delayed the impact. Eventually, like Hawaii, they will open up and they will be impacted like the rest of us.

Agreed. The luxury that islands have is that they have time to get vaccinated before letting COVID in. They will encounter similar issues with vaccine resistance depending upon how divided/nontrusting they are, and how divisive their politics are. New Zealand would do well to make their opening up contingent on the proportion of vaccinated people, I.e. we will open when we get up to 80% vaccinated, and we will allow entry to only vaccinated folks with a 3 day negative test, with a follow up test within 3 days of arrival.
Even if Covid levels drop to almost zero elsewhere, as a microcosm, Covid will hurt them as much as it has hurt other places, else, or even more since their Maori population may be additionally susceptible.

There are also antiviral drugs in the testing phases (real ones, undergoing actual clinical trials with double blind studies, not ‘well, I gave this to some people and they didn’t die’ type results.

[flyingsaucermom]

Originally Posted by Arcos

Not saying your numbers are wrong but what’s needed to make an assessment of current conditions is the levels of current infections, death rates, etc. Counting from the start of the pandemic is more an evaluation of how places did pre-vax, based on geographic connections to source infections, lockdown speed and extent, age of population and density of people.

If I were to judge how a country was doing NOW, I’d look at current case rates and fatality rates. E.g NY is going to look worse than KY, let’s say (not that I’ve checked) because of initial Covid numbers, not because of current vax and safety policies.

That's the point. We can't make any blanket statements that one country or another is superior because too many variables are changing too quickly. We can find studies to say x, y and z, and if we can't, well, wait another month or so.

So let's take Homes's example above.. Portugal and Iceland appear to have had three waves each (unlike the US, which has had, like five) and even though Portugal peaked end of July and Iceland, first week of August, neither have exited the third wave. In fact Iceland's 7 day average is still quite "severe" relative to pre-third wave and seems to be rebounding last ten days.

[url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/iceland/[/url]

Same as WA. In fact both WA and Iceland had rate increases since early or mid July. Three months! We have high vaccine rates, but neither place can bring it's rates down to end of June. We are currently about 8x the rate in June.

Iceland is roughly 18x its June rate.

[Transmition]

Originally Posted by flyingsaucermom

Keep digging around and I'm sure you'll find some "study" to say that Portugal is the bastion of public health. I'm sure it's out there.

Instead of looking at totals, how about the current 7-day averages for new infections because that is what we are dealing with right now.

Portugal has 693, WA has 2386, Iceland has 36. For every 100k people you get 6.8, 30.6, and 10 respectively. This isn't a study, just the raw numbers.

So currently, WA is doing pretty bad in comparison.

[homesinseattle]

I’m judging by how things are right now, not what has happened. Yeah, Portugal had some tough waves but forged forward on vaccinations, reaching 85 percent now. A military admiral took over the vax program, organized things with precision. There is also very little “vaccine resistance” culture and the politicians (regardless of party) have been very supportive of the effort.