Will people in Seattle ever let go of masks? (camping, safe)

[rjshae]

Yes, it's looking like the startup is going to be bumpy for a while. They're having a huge issue with cargo container ships backing up and not getting offloaded. There's supposed to be a bunch of them parked up near the San Juan islands. That in turn is causing inflation, which sucks for retirees like me.

[Hemlock140]

Originally Posted by rjshae

Yes, it's looking like the startup is going to be bumpy for a while. They're having a huge issue with cargo container ships backing up and not getting offloaded. There's supposed to be a bunch of them parked up near the San Juan islands. That in turn is causing inflation, which sucks for retirees like me.

Then we get the protesters blocking the longshoremen from unloading the goods at the port.

https://mynorthwest.com/2981380/prot...-israeli-ship/

Yesterday I was at our Safeway which had a sign (we request that unvaccinated customers wear a mask please". I would estimate that at least 85% of the people in the store were masked, including me, though fully vaccinated. I think people here have become used to the masks over the last year+ and feel safer with it, despite the shots.

[FLcycler]

Originally Posted by Hemlock140

Yesterday I was at our Safeway which had a sign (we request that unvaccinated customers wear a mask please". I would estimate that at least 85% of the people in the store were masked, including me, though fully vaccinated. I think people here have become used to the masks over the last year+ and feel safer with it, despite the shots.

It's a complete 180 here... went to Publix yesterday and saw I think 3 elderly ladies wearing masks... nobody else was including me and neither were the store employees.

It's amazing what you notice after living 10 years in Seattle metro with Inslee's mandates...

To answer the question OP... if I were a betting man I'd bet I could come visit Seattle in 5 years and still see a store full of mask wearers and people driving their cars alone with masks on.

[rjshae]

Originally Posted by FLcycler

To answer the question OP... if I were a betting man I'd bet I could come visit Seattle in 5 years and still see a store full of mask wearers and people driving their cars alone with masks on.

Nice to see that sarcasm lives on. We'll be fine.

[zerp]

Originally Posted by Arcos

I kind of understood why people are still wearing masks. It means you can go about your business (indoors) and feel almost 100% secure from COVID.

Well, feelings are cool and all. They don’t match up with the facts that pretty much every mask everyone has been using is useless in securing vs SARS-CoV-2 in a public setting.

Keep on “feeling safe”, though.

[zerp]

Originally Posted by rjshae

Yes, it's looking like the startup is going to be bumpy for a while. They're having a huge issue with cargo container ships backing up and not getting offloaded. There's supposed to be a bunch of them parked up near the San Juan islands. That in turn is causing inflation, which sucks for retirees like me.

No, sorry. Increases in prices due to supply disruption when there isn’t a drop in demand isn’t inflation.

Inflation is the increase in the supply of money, which is happening anyway due to monetary policy by the Biden administration, Congress and the Federal Reserve.

[rjshae]

Originally Posted by zerp

Well, feelings are cool and all. They don’t match up with the facts that pretty much every mask everyone has been using is useless in securing vs SARS-CoV-2 in a public setting.

Keep on “feeling safe”, though.

Thanks. Here are some helpful facts for you:

Guidance for Wearing Masks

[CrazyDonkey]

Originally Posted by rjshae

When have I ever said I objected to mask wearing?

It seems to me that you have been arguing that only the unvaccinated have legitimate reasons to continue wearing masks, and that communal immunity can be achieved despite widespread vaccine refusal. My argument has been that that only discourages mask wearing among the unvaccinated, who remain a threat not just to the unvaccinated, but also the vaccinated, for two basic reasons:

1) Protection from the vaccines is not 100%, with infection still posing a threat to the unvaccinated, especially if vulnerable (the aged and those with comorbidities);

2) Inculcation of new variants among the unvaccinated that are both more infectious and more lethal remains a real threat, even to the point of potentially defeating current vaccines.

Communal immunity without widespread vaccination is likely to be a chimera. We cannot, as you seem to be advising, simply take off our masks and return to normal, without widespread vaccination, not just in the U.S., but worldwide. The goal should be to extinguish the virus and not to merely contain it so it remains only a threat to the aged, infirm, poor, and minorities.

So far, you have only poohpahed my arguments without actually disputing them.

[rjshae]

Originally Posted by CrazyDonkey

It seems to me that you have been arguing that only the unvaccinated have legitimate reasons to continue wearing masks, and that communal immunity can be achieved despite widespread vaccine refusal. My argument has been that that only discourages mask wearing among the unvaccinated, who remain a threat not just to the unvaccinated, but also the vaccinated, for two basic reasons:

1) Protection from the vaccines is not 100%, with infection still posing a threat to the unvaccinated, especially if vulnerable (the aged and those with comorbidities);

2) Inculcation of new variants among the unvaccinated that are both more infectious and more lethal remains a real threat, even to the point of potentially defeating current vaccines.

Communal immunity without widespread vaccination is likely to be a chimera. We cannot, as you seem to be advising, simply take off our masks and return to normal, without widespread vaccination, not just in the U.S., but worldwide. The goal should be to extinguish the virus and not to merely contain it so it remains only a threat to the aged, infirm, poor, and minorities.

So far, you have only poohpahed my arguments without actually disputing them.

I think you have been refactoring my arguments into a different meaning. I agree that mask wearing has value, but it comes at a cost.

1. The original reason for the lockdown and quarantine measures was to protect the medical systems from collapse. The lethality rate remains low as long as hospital care is available, but starts to skyrocket on system collapse.
2. The reason we opted for quarantine measures is because we lacked a vaccine. That was our only option for lowering the viral replication factor.
3. Thus far it has been demonstrated that vaccination provides a strong defense against severe symptoms, and against virus spread. If we were 100% vaccinated, there would be no reason not to unmask. At least in the short term.

For the time being, the risk in #1 is significantly reduced. Studies have already shown that the vaccinated have a very low probability of further spread. The biggest risk is to the unvaccinated, and the biggest risk to them is other unvaccinated people. They are definitely the ones who should remain masked up, in order to protect each other. If we got the vaccination rate up high enough, it wouldn't matter because herd immunity will kick in. At least in the short term.

The CDC reasoning is that we should continue to test COVID-19 patients and check for breakthrough cases. Once that starts to happen, we'll need to have booster shots, or a new vaccine. Research priority can now focus on medical treatments for COVID-19 patients. Yes we should be working to get the rest of the world vaccinated, particularly in urban regions.

[zerp]

Originally Posted by rjshae

Thanks. Here are some helpful facts for you:

Guidance for Wearing Masks

Nah, those aren’t facts and the CDC isn’t credible anymore.

Facts are that states with mask mandates didn’t perform noticeably different than states w/o mask mandates.

I’m not saying wearing a mask isn’t a bad idea, if you want to wear them, but there need not be a mandate. You can wear a face diaper if you want. But neither you nor Inslee will tell me or make me wear a mask.