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Why don't I answer your questions? Because it's not possible. Research doesn't progress by looking at events that have happened, postulating reasons why those things may have happened, making post-event theories about how things may have worked. You have to actually conduct the research. I'd have to conduct an observational study in Florida and another in WA. I'd have to get funding, do a literature review, propose a hypothesis and then try to disprove it. Ideally, I'd need to do an experiment, which is impossible and likely unethical, depending on what needs to be done. And, IF I did all those things, and publish my research, people who don't want to know will just say 'but what about THIS thing that I witnessed in Idaho, huh? What about THAT case. People don't want to hear what they don't want to accept.
Like, why aren't I seeing evidence that masks work in one state versus another... well... what is the control in this study? Is EVERYTHING the same between the two states, and it's just the masks that are different? Are the people the same? The density? The adherence to a mask mandate? Did the disease get there at the same time? etc. etc. etc.
OR, I could look at the extensive work that has been done over decades by experts in the field, who are clearly not in cahoots with the cotton industry... they did the research over epidemics in the past, they continue to do research, conducted studies, published, discussed the findings, applied them in other epidemics... and hey, they came up with a pretty good consensus that masks work.
Do you SERIOUSLY think that the medical community in MOST COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD is so off base that they are recommending something that's meaningless, just as a placebo? Yes, masks aren't a silver bullet. I am sure in certain scenarios, they will fail miserably. In a nation like the US where so many try their best to fight covid restrictions, they will fail miserably, because people aren't listening.
But yes, if done well, they help. They're a royal pain. And they help.
Mask, social distance, avoid crowds, wash hands, vaccinate. Eventually, medicate. There are a few drugs that help, there will be more.
It's always been that simple.
But... you still didn't answer the question.... specifically about the awesome success that Florida is having (that we still aren't). No mask mandate required... 4x the number of old people...
All you are willing to do is sit there and say "but the smart people say masks work!".
And the funny thing is I'm not even denying that they do. I mean, come on, masks and face coverings have been used since the dark ages ([url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_doctor[/url]). It's very logical and intuitive. I think your first error is assuming I don't think masks work. That's not it. There is more nuance to it.
In this particular case, the variable that I'm surprised you didn't mention above, is: vaccination rate.
I even said it in an earlier post, not that far back, that as a vaccinated person I don't need a mask.
Do you remember when they, the "smart" people, told us, the vaccinated, that we didn't? Come on. I'm sure you do. This would have been back in May or June.
But because of those lazy, people-killing, good-for-nothing unvaccinated we all had to bring it back. First it was a suggestion. Then it was mandated.
I'm still with what the smart people told us back in May: Breakthrough cases are rare. Vaccinated people don't need masks.
That's it. But it just so happens that I'm sitting here, sometimes with masks if I came in from errands, watching what's happening in other places doing things differently with even better results and I'm wondering how it's fair, really, that they said I was safe and that I could enjoy my old habits. And they still don't think it's unsafe, but that I have to keep with this annoying new habit for the sake fo the unvaccinated... when in other places the vaccinated aren't required to have the same annoying habit and the unvaccinated did get sick in alarming numbers, but now it's much, much better. And no masks, even on the unvaccinated, were needed.
Maybe masking up was the wrong move. Maybe just allowing the remaining unvaccinated to catch and fight the disease was as sufficient or better even (after all we're lagging behind... is it masks are slowing down the inevitable in the unvaccinated?).
So get off of it. I'm vaccinated. I don't want to wear a mask anymore. The "smart" people said as a vaccinated person I don't have to wear one to protect myself because breakthrough cases are rare. I socially distance as a natural habit and I really don't care about the possibility of infecting someone else considering that I'm both a vaccinated person and I like personal space. Wearing a mask to get my groceries or walk through a coffee shop is dumb. Especially the coffee shop where the only difference in mask requirement is sitting or standing. As if that made it all safe or unsafe.
Ignore Florida if you want, but a lot of us won't. We want to know. If it turns out masking wasn't really the determining factor in Florida's rates plummeting then we ought to reconsider it for here. Instead focus on the strategies that worked there. Which might mean hitting herd immunity between natural and artificial immunity.
Florida also has reported 4x the number of total COVID cases in children despite having a lower population proportion of children, and the total number of child deaths has doubled in the past few weeks since school started.
I find it hard to ague with the logic that zerp laid out about maintaining proper health.
Same goes for flyingsaucermoms questions about Florida.
Those are legitimate questions and I hear crickets.
I do find it hard for me to follow the logic of our local and federal “expert authorities”.
I’m not knocking vaccinations.
I am pro vac.
I even think masks work but are not necessary at this point in time with this amount of vaccinated people .
Everyone has had an opportunity to get vaccinated.
Just who are we protecting?
To me this is important so let me repeat that.
Just who are we protecting?
Are they worth continually damaging our economy, education, healthcare, mental/family health and our lifestyle?
I don’t think so.
I think removing all mandates will speed up this recovery.
Yes we will spike but we will recover.
The states that were considered for this analysis are basically the states that produce most of the U.S. GDP — states with a population of 5 million or greater. We found two things. First, California had more stringent interventions and a lower infection rate than either Texas or Florida, two states to which it’s often compared. Yet California also performed better with respect to GDP than either Texas or Florida. Second, the same pattern showed up across all big states: On average, the ones with more stringent interventions had both better health outcomes and better economic outcomes.
Very simply, Covid comes in waves. And there are variants. Asking pointed questions about why a particular state is doing ‘well’ at a particular time will get you no good answers because too much is changing and variable at that time to give you a definitive answer.
There’s no telling if a particular strategy helped, or if Covid numbers were already dropping, or if people stopped taking certain risks in response to the infection numbers, separate from government restrictions.
But what we do know is that masks help. They will ALWAYS help against airborne disease.
More and more research is being done every day on the drop in antibody levels over time. It is a strong drop. So yes, just after getting the shot, you could be mask less and still fairly immune. If it’s been 6 months, there’s a good chance your vaccine antibodies are too low or completely gone and you need a booster. A booster puts your antibody levels higher than ever before. Will they drop again and how fast? Israel will tell us in 6 months.
So, again, what do we know? We know masks work. We know vaccines work… for a time. We know boosters increase antibody levels a lot. In 6 months we will know if they reduce infections and for how long.
So, an expert looks at this, looks at the local caseload and says: if I want to reduce spread here, the data points to masking, even if vaccinated. We may need boosters, but that’s uncertain. What is certain is that I can recommend or mandate masks, and that will reduce spread… if people wear them. So, people… wear masks please.
The rest is up to you. If you are in a situation where you may be exposed, a KN95 or N95 mask will help, even if you are vaccinated.
You may fight that truth and ask… but what about here and what about there… and if we can’t answer to your satisfaction, you will put yourself at risk? Ok??
Everyone has had an opportunity to get vaccinated.
Just who are we protecting?
To me this is important so let me repeat that.
Just who are we protecting?
Are they worth continually damaging our economy, education, healthcare, mental/family health and our lifestyle?
I don’t think so.
I think removing all mandates will speed up this recovery.
Yes we will spike but we will recover.
This hasn’t changed. Even when vaccinated, the old and immune compromised remain at risk. Some of them develop ZERO antibodies after two shots. We are protecting them.
The people who we consider our political opponents are AMERICANS. Their communities and lives are suffering because they have been mislead by vicious politicians who promote a culture of machismo over a culture of life. We are protecting them (from themselves). Most of them are good people that have been bombarded with lies. They aren’t avoiding the vaccine out of malice. It’s fear and ignorance.
And finally, as always, we are working hard to keep the daily and weekly hospitalization rates down, to reduce pressure on the healthcare community and so that people rushing to the hospital for non-Covid reasons aren’t given substandard care due to the lack of beds or a slower response time. Vaccinations keep ticking upwards (slowly). Until they get to a higher threshold and until Covid levels reduce, risky activity will put pressure on the healthcare system. People are tired.
YOU as a private citizen can throw your hands up and say ‘I no longer care, those people CHOSE to be unvaxxed’
A doctor or a health official has a responsibility to fight this virus every step of the way, to help ALL the people I mentioned above. I will at least try to not hinder this effort.
The states that were considered for this analysis are basically the states that produce most of the U.S. GDP — states with a population of 5 million or greater. We found two things. First, California had more stringent interventions and a lower infection rate than either Texas or Florida, two states to which it’s often compared. Yet California also performed better with respect to GDP than either Texas or Florida. Second, the same pattern showed up across all big states: On average, the ones with more stringent interventions had both better health outcomes and better economic outcomes.
Dismaying to see people so entrenched in their own 'beliefs' that they applaud objectively worse outcomes.
This was highly predictable. The same thing happened with the 1918 flu. Places that fought the disease may have had a sharper initial financial hit, but they came out faster and stronger. Places that tried to ignore the disease or avoided restrictions due to the fear of economic losses were so much harder hit by the disease that their citizens just avoided economic activity, no restrictions needed, and the economy suffered far more from the ensuing trauma.
This is why having well funded government health organizations is such a boon during an epidemic. And listening to public health messaging produces such good results.
The states that were considered for this analysis are basically the states that produce most of the U.S. GDP — states with a population of 5 million or greater. We found two things. First, California had more stringent interventions and a lower infection rate than either Texas or Florida, two states to which it’s often compared. Yet California also performed better with respect to GDP than either Texas or Florida. Second, the same pattern showed up across all big states: On average, the ones with more stringent interventions had both better health outcomes and better economic outcomes.
Very simply, Covid comes in waves. And there are variants. Asking pointed questions about why a particular state is doing ‘well’ at a particular time will get you no good answers because too much is changing and variable at that time to give you a definitive answer.
There’s no telling if a particular strategy helped, or if Covid numbers were already dropping, or if people stopped taking certain risks in response to the infection numbers, separate from government restrictions.
But what we do know is that masks help. They will ALWAYS help against airborne disease.
More and more research is being done every day on the drop in antibody levels over time. It is a strong drop. So yes, just after getting the shot, you could be mask less and still fairly immune. If it’s been 6 months, there’s a good chance your vaccine antibodies are too low or completely gone and you need a booster. A booster puts your antibody levels higher than ever before. Will they drop again and how fast? Israel will tell us in 6 months.
So, again, what do we know? We know masks work. We know vaccines work… for a time. We know boosters increase antibody levels a lot. In 6 months we will know if they reduce infections and for how long.
So, an expert looks at this, looks at the local caseload and says: if I want to reduce spread here, the data points to masking, even if vaccinated. We may need boosters, but that’s uncertain. What is certain is that I can recommend or mandate masks, and that will reduce spread… if people wear them. So, people… wear masks please.
The rest is up to you. If you are in a situation where you may be exposed, a KN95 or N95 mask will help, even if you are vaccinated.
You may fight that truth and ask… but what about here and what about there… and if we can’t answer to your satisfaction, you will put yourself at risk? Ok??
We also know antibodies are not the only protection against a virus.
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