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Old 02-10-2024, 12:32 PM
 
371 posts, read 361,162 times
Reputation: 899

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The idea of restricted residential zoning originated a century ago, when industries were dirty and smelly, but small enough to pop up unwanted in residential neighborhoods. That's completely different from having a small, tasty restaurant nearby. My home in the suburbs is a block away from a busy street, so there are three restaurants within easy walking distance. That's a benefit. I love when the wind brings the scent of something spicy hitting the grill at the Chinese restaurant.
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Old 02-11-2024, 10:22 AM
 
805 posts, read 539,960 times
Reputation: 2281
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
It seems a little silly and is probably nothing but virtue signaling. "Look we are doing great things for society".

But I can't see it working. I can't imagine anyone actually opening a restaurant and thinking it would be supported by the people who lived close enough to walk to it. That sort of thing only works in mega-cities where the restaurants would be surrounded by high rise apartments and thousands of people within 3 blocks, who all have small kitchens and bad access to grocery shopping, and parking is so difficult that many of them don't have a car.

Seattle used to have a lot more of these little nieghborhood centers, I think they are wonderful, and should be part of the 'burbs, as well:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6129401,-122.2893432,3a,75y,126.68h,109.37t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sX5xLVAwb2DCOKqU_7-HlyA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu


Here's another one:
https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6905...8192?entry=ttu

If you look around, you will see this is not a densely populated neighborhood, but there are enough residences within 8 or 10 blocks to support it.

The main thing is that there has traditionally been street parking, for people who live more than a few blocks away. But Seattle punishes people who need to drive by removing street parking. Any attempt to put in small neighborhood commercial places needs to deal with that issue.
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Old 02-19-2024, 11:55 AM
 
Location: North Seattle
609 posts, read 302,746 times
Reputation: 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25 View Post
This is a good idea.

The sweet spot might be coffee/sandwich shops. They don't need a ton of infrastructure. People will come every day. These can survive based on small customer radii.

A sit-down restaurant with a full commercial kitchen is much harder. People will go to them far less often, so they need much larger customer radii. Parking, kitchen exhaust, and evening noise can be big hurdles.

It would be great for that sandwich/coffee shop to serve beer and wine too, but WA rules can make that implausible. I don't know the details, but it's why a coffee shop near me is 21+.

They obviously won't work everywhere, but there are many gaps all over town.

I'd like corner groceries to be included as well, not just cafes. Let people grab a few basics while out on a walk.
Totally agree
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Old 02-19-2024, 12:09 PM
 
Location: North Seattle
609 posts, read 302,746 times
Reputation: 1002
Quote:
Originally Posted by oregonwoodsmoke View Post
It seems a little silly and is probably nothing but virtue signaling. "Look we are doing great things for society".

But I can't see it working. I can't imagine anyone actually opening a restaurant and thinking it would be supported by the people who lived close enough to walk to it. That sort of thing only works in mega-cities where the restaurants would be surrounded by high rise apartments and thousands of people within 3 blocks, who all have small kitchens and bad access to grocery shopping, and parking is so difficult that many of them don't have a car.
Unfortunately yeah, I don't see how you stay in business if you're only drawing from a 1/2-mile radius in a low-density area. I just don't see the numbers working. Maybe it would work in residential areas *near* higher density areas, but those already have restaurants to compete with.
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Old 02-19-2024, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Seattle
7,538 posts, read 17,221,758 times
Reputation: 4843
There are areas around Seattle that this could possibly impact (in a good way), though. I mean, any guess on locations would need to be backed up by a short market/feasibility study. But if the numbers work, there are lots of places that don't have a ton of identity currently, but could probably support some types of restaurant/deli/grocery. Places like Bridle Trails, or Far South Beacon/Skyway, or Dash Point...
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Old 02-20-2024, 11:44 AM
 
8,856 posts, read 6,846,043 times
Reputation: 8651
There are many, many "tweener" spots that don't merit major retail but have large amounts of residents with reasonable density and no retail.

For example I searched for "coffee" in this area of northern Ballard. A place around 8th and 75th might "own" a large unserved area. Even Seattle itself has several places like this.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/c...!1e3?entry=ttu
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Old 02-20-2024, 03:12 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,551 posts, read 81,085,957 times
Reputation: 57744
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
And yet, even in the low-density SFH areas, neighborhood cafes are busy. Starbucks can go into any neighborhood, including those that already have a few local cafes, and garner enough business to be profitable.
We are seeing Starbucks closing all over here on the eastside. The latest to close were in the Safeway shopping Center in Sammamish, and at Klahanie, next to Swedish Medical and QFC.
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Old 02-20-2024, 11:11 PM
 
8,856 posts, read 6,846,043 times
Reputation: 8651
I don't know Starbucks' expectations, but a mom & pop can deal with less business than they can.
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