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1) The weird and not so pertinent rift between Bellevue and Seattle. It is different, but Seattle area has changed so much. The eastside is more ethnically diverse than Seattle, but you wouldn't think so based on most Seattle comments.
You wouldn't think so because it's not true. This is not a put down of Bellevue. I like Bellevue and recognize that it's quite ethnically diverse. But it's NOT more ethnically diverse than Seattle. Yes, you can go to some Seattle neighborhoods like Greenlake and mostly see white people, but if you go to Highland Park, Rainier Valley, the Central District, South Park, Rainier View, Rainier Beach, Beacon Hill,Martin Luther King Way, Delridge, etc, you'll see Seattle's diversity in a huge way. The statistics bear this out. The eastside does have a lot of Asians, Indians, and Russians, but Seattle has Ethiopians, Somalis, Guatemalans, Salvadorans,Mexicans, Native Americans, etc, in addition to Asians, Indians, and Russians.
The eastside is not more ethnically diverse than Seattle.
1) The weird and not so pertinent rift between Bellevue and Seattle. It is different, but Seattle area has changed so much. The eastside is more ethnically diverse than Seattle, but you wouldn't think so based on most Seattle comments.
You wouldn't think so because it's not true. This is not a put down of Bellevue. I like Bellevue and recognize that it's quite ethnically diverse. But it's NOT more ethnically diverse than Seattle. Yes, you can go to some Seattle neighborhoods like Greenlake and mostly see white people, but if you go to Highland Park, Rainier Valley, the Central District, South Park, Rainier View, Rainier Beach, Beacon Hill,Martin Luther King Way, Delridge, etc, you'll see Seattle's diversity in a huge way. The statistics bear this out. The eastside does have a lot of Asians, Indians, and Russians, but Seattle has Ethiopians, Somalis, Guatemalans, Salvadorans,Mexicans, Native Americans, etc, in addition to Asians, Indians, and Russians.
The eastside is not more ethnically diverse than Seattle.
I suppose I did propose a rather general, unsubstantiated opinion. But although I can see your point, and is the reason I've lived in Seattle most of my life - the Eastside - is more than just Bellevue. Eastside usually meant Bellevue when I was younger, but now encompasses a much greater geographical area. Seattle has not (can not) grown in the same way. Taking Renton as one of the closest examples - it used to be a spot just south of the Seattle city limits for hte most part - but it's a huge area now predominantly east of the lake. But with a new generation of Washingtonians or transplants to the state - and my feeling from many I know there feel they physically live closer to the eastside, but aren't "eastside" in the way I knew that term growing up. My friends in Renton, and even further east are a mix of all the ethnic groups in our post. Goes back to my original point - I just don't think the "eastside/Westside' really applies anymore, except for maybe metro Bellevue and Seattle. Bellevue Square definitely has an image that some think apply to all of Bellevue, but Factoria Mall and Crossroads Mall are also in Bellevue. VERY different.
As the west side continues to gentrify in the areas you've mentioned above, and the affordable housing (for good or bad based one's feelings of urban sprawl) is built in new communities outside of Seattle, many of the ethnic communities are beginning to put more roots down there. And many of these communities are East of Lake Washington.
Given that, neither Seattle nor Bellevue in this day, match the diversity to the south, beginning in Kent onward... I guess that's for a different post.
I live in Renton, and yes, physically some of it is the eastside, but it's clearly more diverse than say...Issaquah. Has more in common with Kent than it does Bellevue, depite what the Chamber of Commerce may try to convey. And I say this as someone who likes Kent, and recognizes and enjoys it's diversity.
I don't know. I think it's going to be a long while before some South Seattle neighborhoods gentrify.
diverse or integrated? it's a big difference...and my (admittedly limited) experience with Seattle thus far has been that it is diverse (in terms of statistics), but very segregated.
diverse or integrated? it's a big difference...and my (admittedly limited) experience with Seattle thus far has been that it is diverse (in terms of statistics), but very segregated.
would be happy to be proven differently
Good point. Renton is integrated and diverse. Seattle had covenants until the 1960's that restricted certain neighborhoods from allowing blacks, Asians, Jews, and although those restrictions are gone or unenforceable, many neighborhoods are still pretty segregated.
diverse or integrated? it's a big difference...and my (admittedly limited) experience with Seattle thus far has been that it is diverse (in terms of statistics), but very segregated.
would be happy to be proven differently
Sociological research shows that American cities are actually growing more and more class- and race-segregated as time goes on... I don't think it's unique to Seattle. In general, people tend to gravitate towards people who are like themselves--it's not nice, but it's one of humanity's very few universal traits. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change it, but that's the kind of socio-cultural evolution that will take hundreds of more years (if not another thousand, if ever) to really, truly change.
Of course, that which Ira500 mentions below probably had a lot to do with it (but again, given the history of our country as recently as 40-60 years ago--e.g. the Chinese Exclusion Act--it's not entirely out of line with historical context)... but I'd be interested in knowing whether other large cities had similar covenants at that time.
Sociological research shows that American cities are actually growing more and more class- and race-segregated as time goes on... I don't think it's unique to Seattle. In general, people tend to gravitate towards people who are like themselves--it's not nice, but it's one of humanity's very few universal traits. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try to change it, but that's the kind of socio-cultural evolution that will take hundreds of more years (if not another thousand, if ever) to really, truly change.
Of course, that which Ira500 mentions below probably had a lot to do with it (but again, given the history of our country as recently as 40-60 years ago--e.g. the Chinese Exclusion Act--it's not entirely out of line with historical context)... but I'd be interested in knowing whether other large cities had similar covenants at that time.
hu? The Seattle metro area is pretty diverse. Bellevue is nearly 35 percent Chinnese, and there are a tons of Indians and other groups from Asia and Russia. Maybe there are not many African Americans, but it is still diverse.
Not sure if you have been reading the stats right but the Seattle metro area has one of the largest populations of multiracial americans in the United States. I think Kent is considered one of the most integrated cities in America along with Tacoma.
Like I said before, the African American population is small. But diversity is much more than black and white. There is plenty of ethnic diversity.
hu? The Seattle metro area is pretty diverse. Bellevue is nearly 35 percent Chinnese, and there are a tons of Indians and other groups from Asia and Russia. Maybe there are not many African Americans, but it is still diverse.
Not sure if you have been reading the stats right but the Seattle metro area has one of the largest populations of multiracial americans in the United States. I think Kent is considered one of the most integrated cities in America along with Tacoma.
Like I said before, the African American population is small. But diversity is much more than black and white. There is plenty of ethnic diversity.
I don't mean diversity in itself--Seattle and Bellevue certainly have plenty of that (I am multi-racial, myself). What I meant is that people tend to want to live around people who are of the same ethnicity and class as themselves--and given even the simplest divisions between N and S Seattle, it's pretty clear that neighborhoods are not terribly well-integrated in that sense. Looking at the demographics of schools exemplifies that fact in itself (especially now that Seattle is no longer going to do any busing).
I don't mean diversity in itself--Seattle and Bellevue certainly have plenty of that (I am multi-racial, myself). What I meant is that people tend to want to live around people who are of the same ethnicity and class as themselves--and given even the simplest divisions between N and S Seattle, it's pretty clear that neighborhoods are not terribly well-integrated in that sense. Looking at the demographics of schools exemplifies that fact in itself (especially now that Seattle is no longer going to do any busing).
Right but what ethnic groups are you comparing?
The Asian community in Seattle is pretty well integrated with the white community. The black community is probably the least integrated. But that is the same anywhere in the United States. That being said, the Seattle metro area still has a very high number of black white relationships. Alot of the segregation of blacks in Seattle is mostly economic.
If you move south of Seattle you will see that place like Kent, and Renton are much more integrated, but that is because blacks disperesed into the suburbs. In fact like I stated before Kent is considered one of the most integrated communities in America. That may come as a suprise to some.
The Asian community in Seattle is pretty well integrated with the white community. The black community is probably the least integrated. But that is the same anywhere in the United States. That being said, the Seattle metro area still has a very high number of black white relationships. Alot of the segregation of blacks in Seattle is mostly economic.
If you move south of Seattle you will see that place like Kent, and Renton are much more integrated, but that is because blacks disperesed into the suburbs. In fact like I stated before Kent is considered one of the most integrated communities in America. That may come as a suprise to some.
Yeah, it's a sad but unsurprising fact that in sociological studies of American residential preferences (based on race/ethnicity), people of every ethnicity prefer living near Asians more than any other minority, and prefer living near blacks the least of any minority. Asians have long been known as the "model minority," though of course "Asian" is a heckuva general term and doesn't account for socioeconomic differences between Asians of different backgrounds (e.g. the difference between Japanese and Hmong communities, or the prevalence of Southeast Asian gangs in some cities, etc). [Since I don't currently have access to my university's online journals, I'll say that most of the best studies about this topic are contained in the sample syllabus towards the bottom of this website (http://www.blackwell-compass.com/subject/sociology/article_view?article_id=soco_tr_bpl098 - broken link).]
I agree, class is a huge part of segregation as well, but it's very difficult to disentangle that from race when it comes to neighborhoods. Do you have any information on what percentage of black-white relationships there are in Seattle, out of the total number of relationships?... I haven't seen any precise data on that, so I would be interested in knowing who has done research on those relationships.
I don't spend much time in Kent, so I have no idea what the level of integration there is like--but as far as I understand it, it may be more integrated because there is less socioeconomic diversity (class) in Kent than there would be, say, between Greenlake and the Rainier Valley. Less of a gap between the rich and the poor, in other words--so people feel like they have more in common with each other, and race becomes less important. But that's just a late-night guess--I don't have any studies to back that up, though tomorrow when my library system is back online, I will check out what sociologists have been doing in Seattle lately and get back to you.
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