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Old 11-23-2008, 01:36 AM
 
22 posts, read 75,822 times
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Hi all,

I'm actually from SF, and not contemplating moving to Seattle any time soon. American cities are kind of a hobby of mine (one of my favorite books is Richard Florida's Who's Your City). At long last I've decided what I think makes a great city: how many "non-locals" there are. Think of some the traditional "greats": NYC, Chicago, SF, LA, Boston & DC. All places with large, transient populations. Places where people really don't care which high school you went to or what your accent's like. Places where most people were born somewhere else. Compare these to a place like, say, Providence, RI or Pittsburgh, PA, or even Cleveland, OH. Arguably wonderful cities in their own ways, but not really destinations.

So I'm curious if Seattle is the same way- if it's mainly professionals from around the country who don't care if you're a townie or not, or it's mainly people born and raised around the area. I'm asking the same question in a few other cities' forums.
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:32 PM
 
9,618 posts, read 27,228,180 times
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Great thing to discuss, though I sort of disagree. A great city is not one that's simply full of out of town professionals discussing cabernet. A great city has those, but also has poor people, lots of ethnicities, people who did grow up there and those who didn't, cabernet drinkers and md 20-20 drinkers. In fact, as Seattle has gained wealth and non native professionals and lots of people who write code for a living or are engagement managers, it has lost some of it's soul.
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:40 PM
 
22 posts, read 75,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ira500 View Post
Great thing to discuss, though I sort of disagree. A great city is not one that's simply full of out of town professionals discussing cabernet. A great city has those, but also has poor people, lots of ethnicities, people who did grow up there and those who didn't, cabernet drinkers and md 20-20 drinkers. In fact, as Seattle has gained wealth and non native professionals and lots of people who write code for a living or are engagement managers, it has lost some of it's soul.
No, I agree- there are many other things that contribute to a city's greatness, including local culture, good schools and universities, progressive social values, etc... What I really meant is openess to talented people who want to settle there and make a name for themselves (as opposed to looking upon them with fear and suspicion).
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Old 11-23-2008, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,757 posts, read 9,022,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trover View Post
No, I agree- there are many other things that contribute to a city's greatness, including local culture, good schools and universities, progressive social values, etc... What I really meant is openess to talented people who want to settle there and make a name for themselves (as opposed to looking upon them with fear and suspicion).
I think that really depends on the industry. In some arenas Seattle is somewhat provincial. Sometimes one can sense a "Well, who do you think YOU are?" attitude. The city has a very cooperative ethos and talented people making a name for themselves sounds somewhat individualistic. That's my perception, after 18 years anyway. I've heard the expression" we don't want to step on anyone's toes" here more than any other place I've ever lived.
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Cosmic Consciousness
3,871 posts, read 17,048,419 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post

The city has a very cooperative ethos and talented people making a name for themselves sounds somewhat individualistic. That's my perception, after 18 years anyway. I've heard the expression" we don't want to step on anyone's toes" here more than any other place I've ever lived.
Wow! What a wonderfully perceptive observation! Seattle's "very cooperative ethos" is a real surprise to newcomers, especially from "cultures" where competition, confrontation, intimidation, and one-upmanship are the rule. Business and other relationships here are conducted as teamwork, not as a spotlighted-star system. This is not a culture that encourages inflated egoes, thank goodness, and one can always get help, assistance, and is only as isolated as one chooses to be. Well said, Jennibc!
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Old 11-23-2008, 03:10 PM
 
Location: rain city
2,957 posts, read 12,679,575 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trover View Post
progressive social values, etc...
I am outside of current socio-lingo. I truly have no idea what you mean by "progressive social values". What is that? And how do you relate whatever it is to the greatness of a city?
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Old 11-23-2008, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Austin, TX!!!!
3,757 posts, read 9,022,692 times
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Originally Posted by azoria View Post
I am outside of current socio-lingo. I truly have no idea what you mean by "progressive social values". What is that? And how do you relate whatever it is to the greatness of a city?
I think that means socially liberal values. In other words being pro choice, gay friendly, etc.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:24 PM
 
Location: rain city
2,957 posts, read 12,679,575 times
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Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
I think that means socially liberal values. In other words being pro choice, gay friendly, etc.
If that's the definition progressive social values, there would seem to be a lot of great cities that get lost off the list.

What about Cairo, Egypt for example? I think most people would consider it a great city. Yet it has thousands, if not millions of people living in abject poverty, the Cairo dump contains a city all of its own, and I read a news article reporting a survey of Egyptian women, over 90% of whom reported sexual harassment in going about their daily lives. This would not sound very progressive.

Moscow, Russia. Red Square was in fact the public execution ground for thousands of people, particularly during the time of Peter the Great--now a UNESCO World Heritage Site. The current Russian government has passed legislation deporting people of all nationalities. Moscow women are commonly exported throughout the international sex industry. Not terribly progressive, does that reduce the greatness factor?

Singapore publicly flogs wrongdoers in public, including the children of international diplomats. Most of us would not consider this a progressive attitude. Reduction of greatness?

Beijing, China has virtually no ethnic diversity and makes every effort to eject people who are racially diverse. An ancient city with 12 million people and growing every day, does this rejection of racial diversity affect its greatness rating?

I think we cannot transpose contemporary western values of political correctness onto the tapestry of what makes cities great.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:25 PM
 
22 posts, read 75,822 times
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Originally Posted by Jennibc View Post
I think that means socially liberal values. In other words being pro choice, gay friendly, etc.
I know it's stepping into a minefield, but yes, that's pretty close. Basically, willing to tolerate very different people. "Tolerate" doesn't always mean "appreciate," or even "like." If you look at NYC at the turn of the last century the various ethnic groups may have privately despised each other, but at the end of the day most folks decided they'd rather do business with each other and prosper than constantly fight.
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Old 11-23-2008, 05:48 PM
 
1,863 posts, read 5,133,116 times
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I think every great city has a mix of progressive population and urban planning, sound urban infrastructure, diverse architecture and beautiful natural setting. One may say that nature has nothing to do with great urbanity, but as a person living in NYC, I can attest that just urbanity without natural setting makes city plain good, not great. Someting definitely is missing. Endless blocks of concrete make one crave to escape. One of the reasons I'm moving to the Great City of Seattle.
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