Seattle vs Vancouver(BC) (Tacoma, Rainier: vacation home, salaries, living)
Seattle areaSeattle and King County Suburbs
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Does anyone Know how safe it is in the area around BC Place stadium in Vancouver, BC? Is it in the bad part of town? I am looking for a good cheap place to stay for three nights that is near the staduim or at least in a place that makes it easy to find the stadium. Thanks!
This area is safe. I highly recommend you YWCA Hotel in Vancouver. It's right in the downtown, near public library and the stadium. I stayed there, and would stay again without any reservations. It's modern and clean, with very friendly staff and moderate prices. Here is the link:
I've traveled many Canadian cities, and not a single Canadian city has a "cool" vibe. Check that - no Canadian cities have any "vibes" period. Although "on paper" they may, and although they are nice and multicultural, I feel like I am seeing them in black and white. What I mean is that there is absolutely no "color" to their cities. Their skyscrapers are ticky-tack condo towers that all look identical. The "world-famous" Yonge Street in Toronto is just a glorified strip mall with worse food. Furthermore, Canadians are boring, insecure, and filled with an unjustified sense of superiority. Not to mention that every Torontonian is annoyingly just bursting at the seams to inform any American that they were named the most multicultural city in the world.
I'd take Seattle over Vancouver any day. Way more personality, and most importantly, doesn't just feel like a city ran by tourism dollars and old or rich Torontonians tropical retirement/vacation homes.
I've traveled many Canadian cities, and not a single Canadian city has a "cool" vibe. Check that - no Canadian cities have any "vibes" period. Although "on paper" they may, and although they are nice and multicultural, I feel like I am seeing them in black and white. What I mean is that there is absolutely no "color" to their cities. Their skyscrapers are ticky-tack condo towers that all look identical. The "world-famous" Yonge Street in Toronto is just a glorified strip mall with worse food. Furthermore, Canadians are boring, insecure, and filled with an unjustified sense of superiority. Not to mention that every Torontonian is annoyingly just bursting at the seams to inform any American that they were named the most multicultural city in the world.
You speak in generalizations. In addition, looks like you are angry. Do you want to provoke? Your statements tell more about you than about Canadians and their cities.
You speak in generalizations. In addition, looks like you are angry. Do you want to provoke? Your statements tell more about you than about Canadians and their cities.
Of course I speak in generalizations. Hell, calling different shades of red "red" is a generalization. Everything is a generalization, and I'm not saying there aren't any exceptions.
But if you compare Toronto to the "Top 4" American cultural centers - NYC, Chicago, LA, and SF - it doesn't even remotely compare in that tangible flow of cultural, historical, social, and so on vibes and excitement. Not even close. As someone else succinctly said, Canada feels like a country of bureaucrats and hall monitors.
And I don't think I came across as angry at all.
Last edited by ComfortablyNumb; 04-07-2009 at 10:04 AM..
But if you compare Toronto to the "Top 4" American cultural centers - NYC, Chicago, LA, and SF - it doesn't even remotely compare in that tangible flow of cultural, historical, social, and so on vibes and excitement. Not even close. As someone else succinctly said, Canada feels like a country of bureaucrats and hall monitors.
CN, you stereotyping the whole country, don't you think? You sound like a Canadian who doesn't like the country and wants to get out.
I personally live in NYC and don't think it's fun. I'm getting out soon. Wanna take my place? By the way, you should come to take my place while I'm still here. Otherwise, the space will be gone by the time you arrive.
Many people I know left NYC for Europe and are very happy there, not missing NY at all. A lot of Americans prefer Canadian cities over American once, for good reasons. It's a shame in such big country there are so few livable cities (talking about US)
I like urban planning of many Canadian cities, Vancouver including. In many aspects, Vancouver is a cooler (I'm not talking about weather) place than Seattle. I don't think it's just hype.
But if you compare Toronto to the "Top 4" American cultural centers - NYC, Chicago, LA, and SF - it doesn't even remotely compare in that tangible flow of cultural, historical, social, and so on vibes and excitement. Not even close. .
The City of Toronto (http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/toskyln.htm - broken link)
The United Nations has called Toronto the most Multicultural City in the World. Over half of Torontonians were born outside Canada. Most of Canada's huge number of annual immigrants settle in the Toronto area, making it one of the fastest growing urban regions in the Western world. Toronto's linguistic, religious, ethnic and racial diversity defies easy categorization or description. Toronto has a large and prosperous Muslim population, Hindus, Baha'is, Orthodox and Western Christians, Buddhists of many descriptions, New-Agers, Zoroastrians, and the city is a major Jewish centre.
The City of Toronto (http://pages.interlog.com/~gilgames/toskyln.htm - broken link)
The United Nations has called Toronto the most Multicultural City in the World. Over half of Torontonians were born outside Canada. Most of Canada's huge number of annual immigrants settle in the Toronto area, making it one of the fastest growing urban regions in the Western world. Toronto's linguistic, religious, ethnic and racial diversity defies easy categorization or description. Toronto has a large and prosperous Muslim population, Hindus, Baha'is, Orthodox and Western Christians, Buddhists of many descriptions, New-Agers, Zoroastrians, and the city is a major Jewish centre.
Read my previous post (before the one you replied to)! Man, good stuff. It's like friggin clockwork. Every single time.
And I never said it wasn't multicultural, btw. I said it doesn't export culture (and no, movies shot there simply for tax kickbacks don't count). Nor does have "cultural vibes" or "excitement." Toronto is overall a very cold and lifeless city. There is action, but it's just... meh.
The best analogy I've come up with, is that Toronto is like watching an action movie with the sound off. Or like non-alcoholic beer. Or Women's Basketball.
Last edited by ComfortablyNumb; 04-07-2009 at 04:36 PM..
I've traveled many Canadian cities, and not a single Canadian city has a "cool" vibe. Check that - no Canadian cities have any "vibes" period. Although "on paper" they may, and although they are nice and multicultural, I feel like I am seeing them in black and white. What I mean is that there is absolutely no "color" to their cities. Their skyscrapers are ticky-tack condo towers that all look identical. The "world-famous" Yonge Street in Toronto is just a glorified strip mall with worse food. Furthermore, Canadians are boring, insecure, and filled with an unjustified sense of superiority. Not to mention that every Torontonian is annoyingly just bursting at the seams to inform any American that they were named the most multicultural city in the world.
I'd take Seattle over Vancouver any day. Way more personality, and most importantly, doesn't just feel like a city ran by tourism dollars and old or rich Torontonians tropical retirement/vacation homes.
We understand that you don't like Canadians, I'm sure most Canadians don't think much of your attitude either...
I've traveled many Canadian cities, and not a single Canadian city has a "cool" vibe. Check that - no Canadian cities have any "vibes" period. Although "on paper" they may, and although they are nice and multicultural, I feel like I am seeing them in black and white. What I mean is that there is absolutely no "color" to their cities. Their skyscrapers are ticky-tack condo towers that all look identical. The "world-famous" Yonge Street in Toronto is just a glorified strip mall with worse food. Furthermore, Canadians are boring, insecure, and filled with an unjustified sense of superiority. Not to mention that every Torontonian is annoyingly just bursting at the seams to inform any American that they were named the most multicultural city in the world.
I'd take Seattle over Vancouver any day. Way more personality, and most importantly, doesn't just feel like a city ran by tourism dollars and old or rich Torontonians tropical retirement/vacation homes.
They will find you worthy if you bring $320,000 US into the country!! See part about businessmen.
I lived in Canada for a year and hated it. Canada is a nice country. It is very conservative and corporate in its outlook. There is a reason all the creative Canadians head to the USA first chance.
It is like living in a country of accountants and hall monitors. If you fit into that cultural mode those people really like it.
I was 23 and in graduate school in Canada. The only problem was that it felt like an old folks home!!
A Canadian told me that most American's think Canada is liberal because they do not have an army and socialized medicine. What most Americans don't realize is that Canada does have an army, it just flies the stars and stripes and they don't have to pay for it. And socialized medicine is not a political statement, but more viewed in the context of a corporate benefit.
Canada was one of the few countries in the world founded by a corporation and run by it for years. The Hudson Bay Company.
Nice flag, nice boring people, a good country for old folks.
That said. And since this is a thread about Seattle and Vancouver. There is no comparison between the two cities. Vancouver is a world city. Seattle is a collection of American suburbs in search of a city.
I am not a city type guy. But if your gonna be in a city, might as well be in a real city.
I just got done living in Vancouver, B.C. for two years. I've lived all over the world (and the U.S.), and I can honestly tell you that I agree with everything the gentleman above said -- except for the last part.
Seattle is definitely a collection of smaller neighborhoods, but it is still a very real and very cool city (I've also lived in Manhattan, so this is from a New Yorker's standpoint). I mean, it's West Coast, don't get me wrong -- but there is definitely a culture and a feel to Seattle that is all its own. It's funky and hip. There is a great music scene, tons of fresh-air markets, lots of great food and real support of local businesses and farmers (see the NY Times article on Seattle from a few months back). There is a reason that grunge -- like it or hate it, it was the most influential new music of the 1990's -- came out of Seattle. It is its own city with its own identity.
Which is more than I can say about Vancouver.
Yes, if you are downtown, there is definitely a lot of diversity and a very cosmopolitan feel -- but God forbid your business/pleasure takes you one tiny step outside of the miniscule CITY LIMITS. I am serious. Granville Island is great, sure, and I spent a lot of time there, but it is not a realistic picture of Vancouver or Canada. You don't have to go very far out -- we're talking blocks -- to see the horrid strip malls, inflitration of Wal-Marts and McDonald's and KFC's -- and the lack of any real highway (to "avoid growth" - HA!) will make your stop-and-go, traffic-filled drive a nightmare. Canada, in many ways, has only got one foot in the modern world, and it shows the second you step out of the good face it works so hard to put on. Is being stuck in the past a bad thing? Depends on how much you liked the 1960's-90's, I guess.
The housing prices are also insane. We lived in New Westminster, a suburb of Van, and our neighbors' tiny, 100 year-old, NOT updated homes sold for the high $600's. Most of these were not even well-maintained character homes, and we were 45 minutes' (although only about 11 miles') drive from the city proper (no real highways into the city, remember?). At one point while we were there, the Vancouver Sun listed the median home price in the Greater Vancouver area as $821K.
Now for the food. The sushi was EXCELLENT -- best I've ever had outside of Japan -- but aside from Asian and Indian cuisine, nada. Restaurants are overpriced because they import everything from the States. Their dairy products are awful and way too expensive for the quality ($13 for a smallish block of Lucerne cheese?!). I lost tons of weight, though, because we ate as humans should eat: mostly fish and locally grown veggies. It was too hard to find any decent cheese, and with alcohol only sold in specialty stores and at about $20 for a bottle of wine that would cost $5 in the States, we gave up on beer and wine.
As for culture: Canadian culture really comes from the foreign cultures who populate it. It's hard to put a finger on. The Chinese and Indian immigrants have extremely strong identities, and these are felt far more than anything I would call distinctly "Canadian." I hear lots of Canadians complain, but really, it's a lot like America in the 19th century, I guess.
So the high points of Canada: natural beauty, great sushi, lots of diversity, and French immersion public schools for the kids (but that's a whole different set of overcrowding/teaching issues that I won't go into here. And I'm a French teacher, by the way).
Notice I didn't mention health care: let me first clarify by saying I worked on Obama's campaign and am a full supporter of universal health care in the States, so long as we copy France's model and not Canada's. Unlike France, where I lived for two years and enjoyed wonderful health care, in Canada, we would have had to wait three months and pass a series of health tests in order to be considered for Canadian health care (and pay FULL price in the meantime if we had to go to the ER). Canadians can only see General Practitioners unless they have special persmission to do otherwise, and have to get on waiting lists if they don't have a GP or theirs retires. Vision, dental, mental health, disability benefits, etc. etc. are not covered under Canadian universal care. We drove down to Bellingham for non-emergency needs, and our doctor's office was always full of Canadians who were paying out of pocket for AMERICAN HEALTH CARE. Again, I am serious.
I could go on, but I think we've all given you a pretty good idea. Canada is definitely actively accepting immigrants, so if you have a good business idea and some extra cash lying about, they'd be happy to have you. And hey, for a fast food joint, Tim Horton's -- the closest thing besides hockey that I found to be distinctly "Canadian" -- isn't all that bad. Just do yourself a favor and never watch "Corner Gas," or you may have to run screaming back to the States. Good lord, that show is awful, but apparently they love it. Good thing they are also responsible for "Kids in the Hall"!
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