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I was trying to contrast the three cities. Read my post more deeply ... wait for it ...
"Seattle is, in general, better than St. Louis"
BOOM!
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Also, it appears you simply don't know anything about Chicago, so I'll simply ignore your attack on the city. It's a wonderful place to live, work, have fun, learn, and whatnot. Have you actually ever been there? I'll wager no and consider you just a troll ... . It's also obvious that you read I was FROM there, and thus decided to just be a little snot and try to talk about something you have ZERO idea about.
I admit I read "compare" and took it to mean "contrast" but I think it gives a good framework for a contrast and thus to give the OP an idea of what is going on with Seattle, if he/she's ever been to any of those cities.[/quote
I reread it and I didn't misunderstand you. You stated:
"Seattle is like the smaller, more laid back, but similarly interesting sister city to Chicago."
And I called BS, that your knowledge of both cities is superficial at best.
And if you read my post carefully, you'll see hints showing that I have lived in Chicago. Six years. Should I provide more evidence of my time in Chicago by going into detail about how the city is provincial and would be irrelevant without its financial markets (CME, Board of Trade)?
Now I'm trolling, for real.
Ummmm NY would be irrevelant without its banking and San Fran without its tech companies....Houston without its energy sectors and DC without the federal government...
Last edited by scirocco22; 03-27-2010 at 04:01 PM..
Reason: quote edited
I reread it and I didn't misunderstand you. You stated:
"Seattle is like the smaller, more laid back, but similarly interesting sister city to Chicago."
And I called BS, that your knowledge of both cities is superficial at best.
And if you read my post carefully, you'll see hints showing that I have lived in Chicago. Six years. Should I provide more evidence of my time in Chicago by going into detail about how the city is provincial and would be irrelevant without its financial markets (CME, Board of Trade)?
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And you totally missed the point that I grew up in Chicago. I lived 18 years there, straight. I'm sorry that living in Chicago wasn't / isn't a good experience for you, but it's not for everyone. Provincial? Perhaps, since it is the biggest and most important city in the Midwest, so you can forgive a little provincialism.
So what about Chicago isn't interesting? They've got festivals, parades, beautiful architecture, financial importance, a wide variety of ethnicities and backgrounds, excellent food, shopping, history, unique artistic expressions, the MUSEUMS (oh man I miss the museums), the CSO (one of the more renowned orchestras in the world), and more industries there and in the surrounding areas than you can shake a finger at.
They've got the largest ethnic pools for the Polish than any other city outside of Krakow. They've got one of the largest Irish backgrounds, as well. German? Yeah, got that too. A whole rainbow of ethnicities from all over the world.
Not only that but Chicago, no matter how you view how they failed at the Olympic bid, made it to the final four. That means that the IOC obviously saw the merit in it and there were audible gasps as they lost, meaning, nobody expected them to lose in the first round, so obviously, it's more famous worldwide than you give it credit for.
And who gives a crap about the fashion? Shows just how superficial you are. In a way you could say NYC and LA OWE Chicago (and the rest of us "backwards people" fashion-wise) because without the rest of the nation, fashion designers would be bankrupt trying to innovate every year.
Given it's varied backgrounds and history, I'd hardly call Chicago provincial, but perhaps a bit because of its isolation in the middle of the nation. And saying it would be irrelevant without the financial markets, one could also say LA would be irrelevant without Hollywood, or NYC would be irrelevant without ITS financial centers. It's worthless to make those sorts of statements.
Seattle is similar, no matter how you look at it. Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, Zymogenetics, Real Networks, Starbucks, etc. has entrepreneurial spirit and a varied industrial and services base too. Seattle is probably a bit less diverse than Chicago if you take a look at the demographics only, but it still feels like a diverse city.
I would say Seattle beats Chicago in natural beauty, but you can hardly blame Chicago for what nature provided.
Look, I'm trying to state here that BOTH cities are excellent cities. Me? I've chosen mine for a number of reasons (natural beauty, more laid back atmosphere, aerospace industry is here, and my wife likes this area too for its Japanese influences). If I could go back to Chicago, I would.
Last edited by scirocco22; 03-27-2010 at 04:02 PM..
Reason: quote edited
And you totally missed the point that I grew up in Chicago. I lived 18 years there, straight. I'm sorry that living in Chicago wasn't / isn't a good experience for you, but it's not for everyone. Provincial? Perhaps, since it is the biggest and most important city in the Midwest, so you can forgive a little provincialism.
So what about Chicago isn't interesting? They've got festivals, parades, beautiful architecture, financial importance, a wide variety of ethnicities and backgrounds, excellent food, shopping, history, unique artistic expressions, the MUSEUMS (oh man I miss the museums), the CSO (one of the more renowned orchestras in the world), and more industries there and in the surrounding areas than you can shake a finger at.
They've got the largest ethnic pools for the Polish than any other city outside of Krakow. They've got one of the largest Irish backgrounds, as well. German? Yeah, got that too. A whole rainbow of ethnicities from all over the world.
Not only that but Chicago, no matter how you view how they failed at the Olympic bid, made it to the final four. That means that the IOC obviously saw the merit in it and there were audible gasps as they lost, meaning, nobody expected them to lose in the first round, so obviously, it's more famous worldwide than you give it credit for.
And who gives a crap about the fashion? Shows just how superficial you are. In a way you could say NYC and LA OWE Chicago (and the rest of us "backwards people" fashion-wise) because without the rest of the nation, fashion designers would be bankrupt trying to innovate every year.
Given it's varied backgrounds and history, I'd hardly call Chicago provincial, but perhaps a bit because of its isolation in the middle of the nation. And saying it would be irrelevant without the financial markets, one could also say LA would be irrelevant without Hollywood, or NYC would be irrelevant without ITS financial centers. It's worthless to make those sorts of statements.
Seattle is similar, no matter how you look at it. Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, Zymogenetics, Real Networks, Starbucks, etc. has entrepreneurial spirit and a varied industrial and services base too. Seattle is probably a bit less diverse than Chicago if you take a look at the demographics only, but it still feels like a diverse city.
I would say Seattle beats Chicago in natural beauty, but you can hardly blame Chicago for what nature provided.
Look, I'm trying to state here that BOTH cities are excellent cities. Me? I've chosen mine for a number of reasons (natural beauty, more laid back atmosphere, aerospace industry is here, and my wife likes this area too for its Japanese influences). If I could go back to Chicago, I would.
I didn't say I didn't enjoy my time in Chicago. All I said is that it's a city that mimics NYC. Seattle, on the other hand, doesn't try to mimic anyone. Seattle culture is more organic, while Chicago's is based on keeping up with the Joneses (NY). For that reason (and many others), the two cities aren't similar.
If Seattle is similar to any city in the Midwest, it'd be Minneapolis, maybe even tiny Madison. Not Chicago.
(Troll on):
Ah, typical Chicagoan provincialism, not socially aware enough to understand the social stratification of cities and regions.
You're missing the point about Chicago's cultural influence. Again, Chicago primarily copies NY and its primary cultural contributions tend to be lower-middlebrow. Think Wicker Park hipsters yearning for the East Village. Boystown trying to be Chelsea and West Village. Think Oprah and Jerry Springer (now in Stamford?). What makes Chicago so lower-middlebrow is that they're OBSESSED with fashion, while Seattle and New York folks aren't (New York doesn't have to be fashionable because they are the trendsetters).
While NY and San Fran, and to a lesser extent Seattle are starting points for US highbrow culture, and LA the starting point for US middlebrow culture, Chicago is the starting point of US lower-middlebrow culture - trash TV and Ebert. Really, what other cultural innovations has Chicago contributed over the past 40 years? Second City is pretty good but its influence is limited to the Midwest. Hey, there's Freakanomics. No wait, the University of Chicago professor writes for the NYTimes, not the Tribune. Chicago made a significant contribution to Industrial music back in the 80s. But who's the next Saul Bellow? How's Leo Burnett doing? Any artists come to mind? Are great artists from Beijing, Tokyo, Moscow, and Prague moving to NY and San Fran, or Chicago? Where's the green revolution coming from? Any significant political movements?
Chicago is fashionable. San Fran and NY are truly culturally vibrant.
That's why NYC can survive without Wall Street, while Chicago can't. Charlie Trotter and Tru wouldn't survive without Chicago's obnoxious and pretentious bankers and traders. NYC, on the other hand, offers far more than economic influence. NY is one of the fashion, art, culinary, theater, etc. capitols of the world. Chicago is a regional capitol and a one dimensional city. NY is a city, Chicago is a town. Seattle's a town too but at least it's honest about itself.
Seattle's a town too but at least it's honest about itself.
It's got world class aspirations, wanting to play with one the big boys (Like SF, NYC, Chicago), did thought about having the Olympics here (the People did not want), tried hosting some events that should've just propelled them onto the world stage. We don't have the political and proper infrastructure to do so and the general population doesn't want to be so because they don't trust the government/police handling.
I mean seriously, have people forgotten about WTO? I had some friends in Japan who never heard of Seattle until WTO (but now they know all about Seattle because of our lovely Ichiro). Even my uncle (in Japan) was asking about the Anarchy in Seattle and how my family could live in such unstable area. And you had politicians leaving saying they would never come back to Seattle.
I didn't say I didn't enjoy my time in Chicago. All I said is that it's a city that mimics NYC. Seattle, on the other hand, doesn't try to mimic anyone. Seattle culture is more organic, while Chicago's is based on keeping up with the Joneses (NY). For that reason (and many others), the two cities aren't similar.
If Seattle is similar to any city in the Midwest, it'd be Minneapolis, maybe even tiny Madison. Not Chicago.
In there we're in agreement to comparisons. Seattle is much more like Minneapolis. Heck, the two cities compete for the most literate and educated cities perennially, and brag about it.
Quote:
(Troll on):
Chicago is fashionable. San Fran and NY are truly culturally vibrant.
Chicago is a regional capitol and a one dimensional city. NY is a city, Chicago is a town. Seattle's a town too but at least it's honest about itself.
Chicago one - dimensional? You really must've had a chip on your shoulder when you moved to Chicago. You sound like a New Yorker or San Angelino who moved to Chicago because it was cheaper and then moved out because it "wasn't SoCal or NYC." Good riddance, I hope you don't bring your twisted "vision" to Seattle.
You actually got me thinking and halfway convinced me from your earlier arguments until I read the parts in bold. Did I not just mention the varied industries and service based companies that are based or have major presences in Chicago? And no city that is "one dimensional" could have grown to the size and influence of Chicago. Nor would a "one dimensional" city have 10 million people in the metro area. Surprised? I'm not. It ain't the locals' birthrate that is driving up population, either. You're going to have to seriously elaborate on why Chicago is "one-dimensional" to sound anything close to reliable with your information. You seem to have some education on the background of Chicago, so please, educate me on why it's one-dimensional, in your own opinion. Do follow up with me on PM, I think others are tiring of seeing us flame each other on a Seattle board. If you honestly think what you say, then you'll follow up. If not, I'll just add you to my ignore list, no big deal to me either way.
If it's one thing that Chicago offers is potential for business. Eventually large markets like Chicago snowball and bring more business in just from the potential from the area.
It's got world class aspirations, wanting to play with one the big boys (Like SF, NYC, Chicago), did thought about having the Olympics here (the People did not want), tried hosting some events that should've just propelled them onto the world stage. We don't have the political and proper infrastructure to do so and the general population doesn't want to be so because they don't trust the government/police handling.
I mean seriously, have people forgotten about WTO? I had some friends in Japan who never heard of Seattle until WTO (but now they know all about Seattle because of our lovely Ichiro). Even my uncle (in Japan) was asking about the Anarchy in Seattle and how my family could live in such unstable area. And you had politicians leaving saying they would never come back to Seattle.
I believe Seattle and Vancouver are considering a joint bid for the 2024 games. Joint bids aren't allowed but that may change, if Seattle/Vancouver get their way.
Seattle seems to have world-class aspirations -- much talked about back in the 90s, when Seattle finally entered the national consciousness -- but a lot of native Seattle folks just want Seattle to be a middling city.
My sense is that Seattle will become a Beta World City, on par with San Francisco. Paul Allen and many of the Californians and New Yorkers moving to Seattle want Seattle to become world-class. And now that green is hip, people have to pay attention to Seattle, even though it's not as green or tech savvy as some think.
Seattle has come a long way. It's gone from being a sh-it-ty, little redneck and hippy town to one that's changed the way a lot of people think and live. Forget Boeing, it's now about Costco, Microsoft, Amazon, T-Mobile, Starbucks, Tully's, cafe culture, Fraser. It still needs to work on its transportation infrastructure and it's far from being an international city. But it has a lot going for it and I think it'll be one of the rising cities of the 21st century.
I believe Seattle and Vancouver are considering a joint bid for the 2024 games. Joint bids aren't allowed but that may change, if Seattle/Vancouver get their way.
Seattle seems to have world-class aspirations -- much talked about back in the 90s, when Seattle finally entered the national consciousness -- but a lot of native Seattle folks just want Seattle to be a middling city.
My sense is that Seattle will become a Beta World City, on par with San Francisco. Paul Allen and many of the Californians and New Yorkers moving to Seattle want Seattle to become world-class. And now that green is hip, people have to pay attention to Seattle, even though it's not as green or tech savvy as some think.
Seattle has come a long way. It's gone from being a sh-it-ty, little redneck and hippy town to one that's changed the way a lot of people think and live. Forget Boeing, it's now about Costco, Microsoft, Amazon, T-Mobile, Starbucks, Tully's, cafe culture, Fraser. It still needs to work on its transportation infrastructure and it's far from being an international city. But it has a lot going for it and I think it'll be one of the rising cities of the 21st century.
Boeing - transformed how people travel around the world. Billions have flown thanks to them, and continue to do so.
MS - changed global engine of commerce and pioneered a whole way of doing business in a new field
Amazon - changed how people shop for books and now a lot more.
Starbucks & Tully's - even if you don't like their coffee, have inspired other cities to embrace what the Europeans have known for a long time, and reinvigorated the coffee culture. Interesting fact - the founding fathers and early colonies had coffeehouses, and long debates would occur on how to formulate and shape the new nation. It didn't survive the Great Depression and WWII and the resulting movement towards instant and regular brewed coffee. Thank goodness it's back.
Green - actually, former mayor Nickels started the US Mayors Climate Protection Agreement, once it became apparent that King Bush II wouldn't sign the Kyoto protocols.
I too think Seattle will eventually become a city known worldwide. I was talking to my wife's folks in Japan and they love Ichiro LOL ... but when I told them what goes on around Seattle, they were shocked. They had no idea Seattle and the area were so important to the economy of the US and had such an impact on the world.
It's "the quiet city" to steal the marketing term "the quiet company." I think a lot of the reason why native Seattleites didn't want change was because they knew what they had going for it and didn't want people to mess it up. I think it's done alright thus far. Some lament the loss of the "gritty" Seattle but ..... I like it how it is now and look forward to it improving.
Now if they can only do something about the fugly townhouses and two-tiered, two-colored houses that sprung up in the 00's ..... .
I too think Seattle will eventually become a city known worldwide. I was talking to my wife's folks in Japan and they love Ichiro LOL ... but when I told them what goes on around Seattle, they were shocked. They had no idea Seattle and the area were so important to the economy of the US and had such an impact on the world.
I know I sound nuts as I'm at the bottom of the coast and Seattle is at the top but I agree with this. I think Seattle is well on it's way to becoming internationally known. Let's face it, I think Seattle has already made it's impact within the country. People around the country know Seattle and know what it has to offer. Lots of people are moving there so the secret's out in the nation to a lot of people.
As far as being known around the world, I think it may be better known that many may realize; not on par of course with other major US cities (yet) but it's gaining ground. I used to work in a theme park for almost two decades and would talk to lots of international travelers. In the beginning when asked where they're going in the US, you got the standard; New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco. Within the last 10 years or so, many would say that they're seeing the west coast and had either come down having started in Seattle or were working there way up from San Diego. These people who had been there as raved about what a magnificent place Seattle was and how much they loved it. I heard this when I was there last summer too. Seattle doesn't need theme parks to do this either. It's a great place just for being itself.
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It's got world class aspirations, wanting to play with one the big boys (Like SF, NYC, Chicago), did thought about having the Olympics here (the People did not want), tried hosting some events that should've just propelled them onto the world stage. We don't have the political and proper infrastructure to do so and the general population doesn't want to be so because they don't trust the government/police handling. 
