Seattle on 60K? (Tacoma, Bellevue, Everett: apartments, renting, mortgage)

[malarkey]

Originally Posted by Don A

Seattle is great but it is fast becoming exclusively for the rich.

Sadly, this is true.

[J99skybird]

Originally Posted by PBC19

Do you have kids??....because I cannot imagine doing what you said with kids, they're expensive. Or did you have major equity to put into that house?? I consider myself a very practical person who lives within my means. I balance my checkbook every month and am very aware of where every dollar goes in my house. I cannot imagine buying a $380K house and doing what you are doing.....but more power to you if you can figure it out.

We did not bring any equity into the house. It is our first house and we got it with zero down (80/20 piggback fixed rate mortages). And while we are frugal when it comes to food and such, we still ate chicken and beef and all the normal stuff, not just rice and beans... but we never ate out or went to the movies or anything like that. No we do not have kids yet, we are saving up for them, so I will say that it is much harder with kids, but it can be done if you rent or take on a smaller mortgage (more than 3/4 of my husband's take home pay goes right back out to pay the minimum on the mortgage). We do have a special needs dog who has expensive medical bills, five perscription meds, and even specialty perscription food.. and insurance doesn't cover a dog... not as expensive as a kid, but still more than just us. Plus if we had kids, we would not have been renovating our kitchen... so there are always trade offs.

My point is that its about priorities. My parents had 2 kids and very little income, but they prioitized having a house for us to grow up in and somehow made it work in a community more expensive than Seattle. It was hard, but they did it.

[5chevin5]

Shhhhhhhhh, I think it worked...the original poster has not posted in two weeks...I think everyone scared them away!!! Housing market aside...If I was thinking of buying the minute I landed in Seattle, I would be freaked out too!!! I always like the posters that recommend renting for a year or so...that seems like sound advise.

Its so hard to get a vibe on the specifics of any one families spending, budget affordability. Im sure 60k (plus/minus) with 2 kids would be rough in about 100 cities across America. Its also hard to come from one city to another and expect to make the same wage based upon a qualification or degree...its still about face time in an interview with someone, luck and timing. I think it is best for someone asking a question like the original poster did but also do serious homework and a serious look at their priorities. Some people...must...own a home. Some people...must...have a new truck. Some people.....must....play pull tabs till their fingers bleed. And all those people will justify that spending as a priority. To them....it is, and nobody can judge that. But you may not like the answers of people that dont share those priorities.

Can someone survive living close to the bone, of course.
I was reading this thread because Im an executive chef, looking to move back to Seattle from Asia next year...so I was curious how it had progressed. I think everyone has added some very good "food for though" (sorry for pun) and it should always be better to error on the side of caution, then charge headlong into a mistake that could poke out an eye....or something.

Just my 20 yen

[jwb123]

There was a community, more expensive than Seattle, back when you were growing up? Sounds kind of hard to believe... add that to your assumption that one, with kids, should try and get a mortgage under $380k in Seattle to make it work... and your apples to apples comparison of a special needs dog to caring for a kid... can you really be so out of touch with reality?

[J99skybird]

Percentage wise, yes it was. Now it is even worse, for a comparison, realestate has gone up six-fold, while my parent's income has only gone up maybe 15%. (and real estate there is currently at about twice what it is here for a comprable home while their combined income is <60k and they're putting my brother through college).

There are plenty of decent houses/townhouses/condos out there for under $380, we got a nice house. No it won't be IN Seattle, but neither is ours. I also suggested renting.

I also said that the dog is NOT as expensive as a kid, just pointing out they we do have more than just the two of us to care for.

I said our situation wouldn't apply directly to someone with kids, but someone who rented on that income could. For less than half our monthly mortgage a family could rent a very large apartment.

[noplacelikeWA]

Originally Posted by PBC19

I appreciate other opinions, but to demonstrate my point - you don't live in Seattle anymore so you may not know what the prices are like now....and you OWNED when you were in Seattle... only 12 miles north of Seattle which was a really great location. It's totally unrealistic to buy there now on $60k/year.

Just to clarify that I am not that far out of touch with reality you should know that I only moved away in April 2006 and while I agree we probably could not buy our old house on the same income now, I do however think it is still reasonable to use $60k as base minimum for living in the Seattle "area."

[fllover]

WOW....more overpriced than NYC????, and Portland right under it??. Sorry, just shocked me as we were looking to relocate to Portland from Las vegas as it's getting way overpriced here!!

[scottygrandote]

I'm a sous chef who works downtown in seattle and I have about ten years of management experience and twenty years of kitchen experience. I also have a culinary degree from le cordon bleu. I make in the mid 40's with good bonus potential but I am positive that I could easily make more and have a better schedule as well as perhaps better benefits if I decided to hit the job market here. I feel no need. My wife works in research science and has a masters degree and also makes in the mid 40's.

We live on the east side in Kirkland and although my commute isn't great it isn't horrible either. I enjoy working downtown and a commute to somewhere on the east side wouldn't necessarily cut much time so job location is not really an issue. We do not have children but if we did or do we live in the lake wa school district which is nearly as good as the Bellevue school district. The other area school districts are all big steps down including seattle. Together we earn high five figures and have little debt and own our home(although it is modest). There is not a lot left after monthly bills and mortgage.

So long story short we definitely pay a premium to live in the seattle area especially in a nice neighbourhood with good schools. We could easily make as much or more living just about anywhere relatively close to a decent sized metro area. My wife's career is more limiting as research firms and universities are her main employment opportunities but this is not a very limiting issue. We pay for the place we live in both monetarily and with our time. I do believe myself that if it was not her home and where she grew up seattle is not necessarily the 'ideal' place to live in many ways although I like it very much I would rather live in San Diego and for cost of living and lifestyle/home quality it would probably be an equal trade to live in a place with much better weather and still on a coast...

I grew up in a mid size Midwestern city and quality of living for a couple like ourselves would be unbelievable compared to where we live if we lived back there somewhere. Istead of a dinky two bedroom house we could afford a four car garage and pool and still put money away. I do agree with one poster that if you live modestly you can easily afford to live in seattle with your education and your wife's as well as experience level. Question I would ask is; Is Seattle and what it offers worth the sacrifices you will make? The job market is good at the moment and finding employment will not be an issue. Be very careful if you decide to buy a house right away since the market is still so good I can see wanting that but knowing the city and where to purchase a home and how much you should pay will take research. Some commutes can be death sentences around here since bridges and poor traffic/city planning are part of the package.

Seattle offers 8 months of rain or more each year and the likelihood of a couple snowstorms that literally cripple its California ish inhabitants. It also offers the ability to get to the slopes and back in one day if you ski. Summer while short is incredibly beautiful and green. Allergy sufferers will have issues in Seattle. Hiking/Biking/Winter Sports enthusiasts and outdoors people will love it here.

[benleis]

There should be a statute of limitations on reviving 6+ year old threads. Presumably everyone involved has moved on.
Ben

[Blondebaerde]

Coll thread: half say "Yes We Can!", other half "Don't Try it!"

Might be coincidence, or may have spurred your question, but Lifeinc dot com had an article on this subject today: "Here's how much Americans think families need to get by." Oddly, they came up with about 60K for a family of four.

But they also comment within the article: "depends who you ask." They also should ask, but did not: "depends too on where you live."

Seattle is clearly a very expensive place to live, for various reasons.

I started an even-more long-winded "yes you can" answer and realized I was stuck in 2003 thinking. I've been here 15 years. And I'm stuck in a bubble, too, living in a good area that appears (per Zillow) ready to appreciate yet another 10% in the next year. That takes it from "overpriced" to "crazy money" to buy-in to good schools and etc. No way to know if areas like that will continue to appreciate, to 2007 stratospheric levels. One thing absent this time is cheap, easy money (tougher lending standards). Which is good.

But the Seattle metro area on the whole is on an upswing, too. Exacerbating the problem for buyers and (probably) renters.

Thus, as others have commented, a lot of Middle Class people are out of luck. I think it fair to say most people would call 60k for a family of four "Middle Class." What constitutes "Fair" housing prices is another question, for politicians and demagogues. Eventually people start electing wealth-redistributing politicians who start to jam on the "haves" under cloak of "fairness"...never mind.

Sadly, guess it's true these days: hard to get by for an average family. I'm lucky and had equity to leverage into a rapidly appreciating asset (at current), several years ago when prices were low(er). Trends are just that, no one can predict macroeconomic conditions with absolute clarity, but now my "guts" tell me living anywhere arbitrarily "upper middle class" in Seattle metro on a 60K / yr salary, with all the trappings that go-with, is increasingly difficult. Improbably, if not impossible. The overpriced thing seems to be true, with no end in sight.

But, in the end, it's do-able to live somewhere. With enough frugality and sacrifice. Hour commutes would drive me mad, been-there/done-that and may do so again. But only reluctantly.

Thus, with ALL your criteria in-mind, would have to say: think it over very carefully, research thoroughly, but: may want to select another area to live.