Any Ideas for Buying Your Homestead w/out Getting Fleeced? (simple living, lakes)

[mostie]

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

Check for homestead act land giveaways by certain states/municipalities. It doesn't happen often and strings are always attached but free is often the right price. I believe Beatrice,NE (SE Nebraska) is currently considering a homestead land give-away to broaden their future tax base.

Actually, we're about 80 miles from there, I heard about it and went to their website- they are giving it away, stipulation being that you build within a year and live there for at least 5 years, and can't sell in that time. Thing is...I detest this state, lol- I"m sorry, I sound so rotten, but it's miserable here- at the moment, well...no, actually, it's been this way every day for weeks, the heat outside is suffocating because of the humidity- we have thunderstorms, lightening, and rain tonite- and it's still almost 90---People who live here and can deal with this deserve medals, honestly-

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

The barn or metal building transformed to living quarters is becoming more popular and would seem to be a good long term investment with reduced exterior maint. required. I recently read an article about utilizing and transforming metal grain silos into living quarters either as single or multiples joined. If I had started from scratch rather then choosing land with an existing home this may have been an attractive option for me.

I saw that article too, the house was amazing- would have looked so much better if they had painted the outside as well, but they did a great job- i've heard of people using those big ....oh what are they called, storage things like what they use for a railroad car, as well- I like the idea of using a storage building or barn as well, really interesting concepts!

Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal

Finding ways of maximizing energy efficiency while minimizing financial expenditures is key. The efficiency of the land should also be considered. What will the support that you can use to reduce expenditures elsewhere? Is there a sustainable timber stand for wood heat (if in middle & northern climates)? Water source, water collection? Will the land sustain gardens or livestock or is it poor and highly eroded requiring major investment of time to improve? Can you purchase enough land to rent/lease some of it(crops/pasture/hunting) for cash income?

Some people are able to co-op a lease purchase/work purchase for small acreage while allowing elderly farmers to live out the rest of their years on their own property.

I like all of your ideas!

[teachertype]

Property tax is the biggest fleecing you may ever take.

I have a modest rural house and my town property tax is just under $3,000/per year, which is on the low end for my region. That $3k is more than I usually need to spend annually for food and heat combined for my family.

My property tax always goes up, it never goes down, and has no relationship to the rise and fall in my income, my needs, or what I get from the town for my $3k (virtually nothing). It's non-negotiable. If I don't pay the property tax the town will charge interest on what I "owe" and, eventually take my property and make me homeless. So, I am a serf on my own land and will be indebted to the town as long as I live; I will never live here free of oppressive debt. Pretty good racket for the town though.

There are places, even in the USA, where there is no property tax. I'm not young anymore but if I could do it over again I would only buy property where there is no property tax. The cost or kind of the property is almost irrelevant when compared to a life of intractable indebtedness.

[Escort Rider]

The mix of taxes in different areas can be surprisingly uneven. Since roads, libraries, police and fire protection, schools, public health inspections of restaurants (and on and on) cost money, they have to get it from us somehow. Some states have no income tax, and some have no sales tax, but it's a truism that other taxes are higher in compensation.

Although property taxes are usually set locally, or at least by county, I would still be curious what state TeacherType lives in. His property taxes do seem high to me, but I am a bit puzzled by the venom he expresses against them ("biggest fleecing", "oppressive debt"). Even given that none of us liketo pay taxes, perhaps TeacherType can explain further what he finds especially oppressive about property taxes. In other words, what would be the advantages of collecting the same amount in increased user fees such as auto registrations, increased sales taxes, and/or increased income taxes? In what way would that be less oppressive than the admittedly high property taxes?

[teachertype]

I live in the northeast and my $3,000 annual property tax is peanuts here. Four to six thousand is more the norm in my area. I think I was pretty clear why I don't like property tax but if you want another go 'round, you got it.

First, I'm not an anti-tax conservative, Republican, or Libertarian. I'm a progressive liberal and a proponent of a strong social safety net, national health, and publicly funded education including college, etc., like European social democracies. I just don't think property tax is the best way to fund local services, many of which should be and used to be more the responsibility of the state and feds who already tax us heavily.

As long as there is a property tax, you will never really own your home, unless you're okay with being like a peasant tenant in medieval feudal England. You will always be subject to homelessness.

A millionaire in a mansion will pay more property tax total than a poor person in a small house, but the millionaire will have food money left over at the end of the month. A less affluent person, in a smaller, less valuable house, will usually pay less property tax but have less money left on which to survive. Property tax is the most oppressive for people who can least afford it - the elderly, poor and disabled. Income tax, luxury tax, sales tax, VAT are more equitable because they are either less regressive or completely optional.

If I can't pay auto excise tax, I can survive without a car. I can survive without a Rolex watch or a boat. They are optional. I can cut back on clothing, food and heat and if I own property I can grow my food. I would still need a place to live. The one thing I can't do, as a senior on a fixed income, is skip that quarterly $750 to the town or they will take my house and make me homeless. Every month I have to set aside $250 for the town before I may take a bite of food, or a degree of heating, or the Sheriff's Dept. will put me out on the street and seize my property for the town, leaving me homeless, destitute and dependent on the charity of strangers.

Whether you pay cash for a house or pay a mortgage every month for 30 years, at some point you should be able to say "it's my house, I paid for it, I own it and I can live out my final days here without anyone taking it from me." As long as there's a property tax you will pay, and pay, and pay, long after your house is "paid in full'' or the government will evict you and take your house from you.

[marmac]

property taxes-------

On my small dairy farm, in rural central Minnesota, my property taxes have risen .
They are now $2,000 per year even after getting a green acres reduction for farmland that meets specific criteria.

Property taxes go to 3 places------county, township and local schol district.

Over half of my property tax bill goes to the school district.( K-12, 400 total students )

I'm not against paying taxes for our school. I am upset that property taxes are the only source of taxing for building schools and increasing the operasting levy above the amount the state provides ( $5,000 per student)

It would be quite simple to incorporate income tax into local school districts as a way to lower property taxes. ( it wuld require changing state law )

Everyone gets to vote on raising property taxes.
Usually the ones not affected or least affected by property tax increases are sure to vote yes.

[Submariner]

Property taxes are your property's assessed value multiplied by the local mil-rate. Mil-rates vary over a wide margin.

We find that here the state sets one basic mil-rate divided by county. What each county needs to function for itself and to toss a bit extra into the state coffers. Then each township starts with that mil-rate and can add onto it to cover that township's budget.

My township uses the county mil-rate. That is because this township an 'Unorganized Township', we have no town offices, no town clerk, no PD / FD, and for every student attending public-funded schools the county pays a tuition to that school district. Our town once had a town charter, but when they realized how much it was costing them, the townfolk burned their charter and became an 'Unorganized Township'. In this state 52% of all townships are Unorganized.

The township immediately to our West set their mil-rate at exactly double the county mil-rate. That is how much they need for their budget. A small town their office is only open a few days each week, and they have a nice machine that grooms their snowmobile trails all winter long.

The township immediately to our South set their mil-rate at exactly triple the county mil-rate. A bigger town; their office is open 5 days / week. Their city park has a water scape play area for children that by itself costs that town $60k/year [to operate and maintain], plus insurance. They have an enormous PD / FD. They feel they need a lot of LEOs to protect the townsfolk from college students, a neighboring town has a state university, the LEOs make multiple underage drinking busts each week. Move to that town and if you between 18 and 25 you will be stopped and your car will be searched at least monthly.

Every town has it's own feel, it's own attitude and it's own budget. The townsfolk decide how much money they need and how to spend it. If a town decides they want lots of municipal services provided then they raise their mil-rate to cover it.

Just in the example I see with these three towns, I think it is very easy to see the differences of mindsets.

And a homeowner's taxes can vary a lot. For every $1 I pay, to the West you would pay $2 and to the South you would pay $3. And I am sure that there are other towns that run much higher.

[marmac]

In our state, what school district you are in can make great variances in property taxes.

Township taxes are very low regardless which township you live in. ( my rural area , anyway )

[teachertype]

One common theme, no matter whether marmac's example or f beekeeper's, is you will never fully own your home and land as long as there is a property tax and local officials can take it from you.

A permanent lifetime payment on something you've already paid for is a pretty good racket for the towns. And, some of us pay more than just a little more as newcomers than the town good old boys pay on their own personal property.

[marmac]

Originally Posted by teachertype

One common theme, no matter whether marmac's example or f beekeeper's, is you will never fully own your home and land as long as there is a property tax and local officials can take it from you.

A permanent lifetime payment on something you've already paid for is a pretty good racket for the towns. And, some of us pay more than just a little more as newcomers than the town good old boys pay on their own personal property.

My dad lived from 1890-1973

He always used to say........" if you think you own your farm,quit paying property taxes and there will be a new owner "

[NY Annie]

Originally Posted by marmac

You must remember land prices didn't take a hit like residental property did.

Very hard to find cheap land and you usually get what you pay for.

Many " bargains" are in remote desert locations where water is scarce and the soil is poor.

I have a post in the retirement forum about "enough". My husband and I (together close to 13 years) did not own a house - we rent in NYC. It's a huge 4 bedroom monster of a house. We use very little of it for actual living space. I am disabled/retired. He is retirement eligible in 1 year, at age 56. So we set out looking for inexpensive places to buy property/house for our retirement. We actually started nearly 6 years ago. We looked upstate NY but then prices started going up and the taxes are high. And then we moved further west upstate but the cold. We nearly bought a house with 10 acres on the side of a mountain - we were outbid by a cash offer. One of the things that happened that trip was the drive back to the city in a snowstorm. I have arthritis.

We decided then that we needed to move south. I LOVE the ocean and the smell of salt air - I was raised on and in it. Not being on/near the coast was a difficult choice to make, but as we started looking, we realized that we'd spend our ending days "house poor" and that's not what we wanted. So we checked our financial status/income for after he retires and looked at what we CAN afford that is moderately warm but not cooking - and it came down to far west - Nev/Az which we ruled out for many reasons - or TN. We looked in the east and kept moving west. We wanted LAND. We wanted privacy. So we took all the money we would have spent on a house, estimated how much for improvements WE want and figured out how much to spend. We will be there to do the improvements in a year. We spent under $100K and by the time we move in next fall, there will be a pool and a deck. When we arrive, we will begin to build an outdoor kitchen. Some day we may upgrade the inside kitchen but it's less important to us right now. We will have 800 sq ft of inside living space and lots of woods to make into outdoor living space as we choose when we are there to see what works and what we need.

So us city folks are going to have a well and septic. We'll figure it out. We will have a garden for vegetables and there's an agri-extension in the nearby town. We'll get a new car (cash) since we're in the middle of nowhere. I'm looking forward to our working-together retirement. And so is he. It's affordable for us and we'll be comfortable financially. We're not in town (deliberately) so we only have county taxes to pay - for a 3 br house, under $300 isn't bad.