What? You Don't Have Chickens Yet? (houses, rake, room, gas)
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You dont even know what you dont know.
Grain and forage silos look alike, my dear.
Google can be your friend, and prevent embarrassing gaffes.
Funny thats all you could say about my post.
Hmmm perhaps having a different priority when growing and storing, and a different diet, may be some reasons that you don't see field upon field of grains and huge silos on an Amish farm?
Most Amish farms that I spent time on in PA, including the one right next to my Mom-Mom and Pop-Pop's farm, were bio-diverse... different animals, vegetables, fruits and grains grown for many different reasons. Not all one or two things from fence to fence. They strive to have as complete an ecosystem on their farms as possible - a full bio-circle. They also eat a much more varied diet, not at all lining up with the USDA Food Pyramid, and most of that is fresh in season, cold-stored, home canned or dried. They don't normally eat as much grain, and you don't need to put up tons every year in order to make your daily loaf and your breakfast porridge... so most of the grains they grow and store in silos would be forage for their livestock, not for personal consumption or profit. They also don't necessarily care about wringing the absolute highest yields out of every square inch of dirt... they grow what they need and let the soil stay healthy. Including letting some *gasp* weeds grow in their rows and fields... because some weeds are actually very healthy for the soil and are beneficial to the crop they're growing in as long as they don't take over.
I think it's kind of funny that people make such distinctions between different species of animals... like which can be "pets" and which are just "livestock". Like the animals knows that it's supposed to be a farm animal. Like all animals don't need proper housing, and feeding, and exercise, and poop disposal? A stinky dog run doesn't smell any better than a stinky hog pen; and a clean hog pen doesn't smell any worse than a clean dog run. A filthy cat box doesn't smell any better than a filthy chicken coop; and clean chicken coop doesn't smell any worse than a clean cat box. A raccoon or a rat isn't going to make a distinction between chicken crumbles and Fido's food dish on the back porch. Raiding the henhouse may be a favorite, but raccoons also really love dog biscuits. And then there are those "crossover" animals like rabbits... hmmm, pet or livestock? Pet if you just cuddle them, but livestock if you eat them? Even when the hutch they live in is exactly the same either way?
I say if the animal you have can safely and appropriately be cared for in the space and conditions that you're raising them in, then have at it! Does this mean having a goat in an apartment? Or having a Angus steer in your tiny townhouse yard? Of course not... but you shouldn't have a big dog in those conditions either!
Hmmm perhaps having a different priority when growing and storing, and a different diet, may be some reasons that you don't see field upon field of grains and huge silos on an Amish farm?
Most Amish farms that I spent time on in PA, including the one right next to my Mom-Mom and Pop-Pop's farm, were bio-diverse... different animals, vegetables, fruits and grains grown for many different reasons. Not all one or two things from fence to fence. They strive to have as complete an ecosystem on their farms as possible - a full bio-circle. They also eat a much more varied diet, not at all lining up with the USDA Food Pyramid, and most of that is fresh in season, cold-stored, home canned or dried. They don't normally eat as much grain, and you don't need to put up tons every year in order to make your daily loaf and your breakfast porridge... so most of the grains they grow and store in silos would be forage for their livestock, not for personal consumption or profit. They also don't necessarily care about wringing the absolute highest yields out of every square inch of dirt... they grow what they need and let the soil stay healthy. Including letting some *gasp* weeds grow in their rows and fields... because some weeds are actually very healthy for the soil and are beneficial to the crop they're growing in as long as they don't take over.
Those of us that are trying to become as self-sufficient as possible could learn much by studying Amish farming methods.
I know there is quite a bit online, have been reading everything I can get my hands on about their methods.
I do believe were coming upon a time, where u are going to see more folks raising farm animals for food.
The concrete jungle in some areas. I can imagine them tearing them up to plant food or raise animals.
I can tell u growing and raising your own is made a difference in my health.
Those of us that are trying to become as self-sufficient as possible could learn much by studying Amish farming methods.
I know there is quite a bit online, have been reading everything I can get my hands on about their methods.
Like Herr Wilhelm (the Amish neighbor farmer) used to say "You can't beat nature, the best you can do is bargain." Bargaining means you have to have something of value to give back... it's not all "take". If all you do is take from the land, eventually it'll stop giving. It's up to us with our big ol' human brains to observe how things work and figure out how to get what we want out of the system while still leaving the system intact and functioning. It's not about taking it all and getting the most.... greed and avarice is ultimately self-defeating. This is something "the English" could stand to remember once in awhile.
I once had the pleasure of going on a wild edible forage with a Buddhist monk (as a contrast to the Amish ), and he stressed only taking a little from each thing that we found and then moving on to another part or another plant so that next year there would some to harvest and the forest animals could eat some, too. When he didn't find "enough" of one thing, that was ok because you're sure to find plenty of another thing, so your basket was still full. Accept the gifts and be thankful for them, and you will keep receiving them. Expect the gifts and keep demanding them, and you will be sure to leave empty-handed.
And a good Indian (from India, not Native American) friend of mine once humbly defended his modest garden by saying "I grow all that I need, not all that I could. It is enough".
Lol about the client of your lawn service and the Monarchs, another example of what companion planting could have done!
We currently are growing organic produce here, along with organic free range eggs. We have been here almost 7 years, the property belonged to DHs parents for 20 years before that.
I am teaching myself to make goats cheeses. A neighbor of mine up in Missouri makes award winning goats cheeses, I hang out with them quite a bit, soaking up everything I can. This is their site, great people!
Its a long, slow process to get this property up and running, as it was woods when my in-laws bought it, and they didnt do a great deal with it, it was their retirement property.
We would eventually like to have enough dairy goats to be able to do what what my neighbors in Missouri are doing, we will get there, eventually!
I've been in Florida for 21 years, I have seen a lot of changes in Ocala, most of them not for the better, unfortunately.
Perhaps you could arrange to visit the folks at Sweet Grass Dairy in Thomasville GA:
They've become "locally famous" as a supplier of artisan cheeses to restaurants - a few in Jacksonville - many in Atlanta - and some markets (including Whole Foods in JAX). I think you're far enough away from them that you'd be operating in different geographical areas - and wouldn't be in direct competition (so they can be friendly ).
Don't know where you distribute your produce and eggs. But if you want to sell out - you might take a look at the Riverside Arts Market. It's supposed to be a food market too - but has more customers than farmers and product. Here's a link to its current "call for farmers":
Riverside Arts Market - Jacksonville, FL (http://www.riversideartsmarket.com/produce.html - broken link)
A few vendors from some pretty distant places have made it a regular stop on their "farmers market circuit". Robyn
I think it's kind of funny that people make such distinctions between different species of animals... like which can be "pets" and which are just "livestock". Like the animals knows that it's supposed to be a farm animal. Like all animals don't need proper housing, and feeding, and exercise, and poop disposal? A stinky dog run doesn't smell any better than a stinky hog pen; and a clean hog pen doesn't smell any worse than a clean dog run. A filthy cat box doesn't smell any better than a filthy chicken coop; and clean chicken coop doesn't smell any worse than a clean cat box. A raccoon or a rat isn't going to make a distinction between chicken crumbles and Fido's food dish on the back porch. Raiding the henhouse may be a favorite, but raccoons also really love dog biscuits. And then there are those "crossover" animals like rabbits... hmmm, pet or livestock? Pet if you just cuddle them, but livestock if you eat them? Even when the hutch they live in is exactly the same either way?
I say if the animal you have can safely and appropriately be cared for in the space and conditions that you're raising them in, then have at it! Does this mean having a goat in an apartment? Or having a Angus steer in your tiny townhouse yard? Of course not... but you shouldn't have a big dog in those conditions either!
pets vs livestock
simple, if the animal provides food for humans, it's livestock
In our state, horses on farms are not considered livestock in many instances.
I think it's kind of funny that people make such distinctions between different species of animals... like which can be "pets" and which are just "livestock". Like the animals knows that it's supposed to be a farm animal. Like all animals don't need proper housing, and feeding, and exercise, and poop disposal? A stinky dog run doesn't smell any better than a stinky hog pen; and a clean hog pen doesn't smell any worse than a clean dog run. A filthy cat box doesn't smell any better than a filthy chicken coop; and clean chicken coop doesn't smell any worse than a clean cat box. A raccoon or a rat isn't going to make a distinction between chicken crumbles and Fido's food dish on the back porch. Raiding the henhouse may be a favorite, but raccoons also really love dog biscuits. And then there are those "crossover" animals like rabbits... hmmm, pet or livestock? Pet if you just cuddle them, but livestock if you eat them? Even when the hutch they live in is exactly the same either way?
I say if the animal you have can safely and appropriately be cared for in the space and conditions that you're raising them in, then have at it! Does this mean having a goat in an apartment? Or having a Angus steer in your tiny townhouse yard? Of course not... but you shouldn't have a big dog in those conditions either!
I agree with your statements - but not necessarily your conclusions. Possibly because I live in a suburban (not remotely rural) area - and because I think a lot of people are slobs. They do things like putting large litters of dogs on their back porches - and letting the pups **** on newspapers for days on end until the porch stinks to high heaven. Walking their dogs and allowing them to do their business on other peoples' lawns. Letting their cats roam around (during their roaming they kill a lot of birds). Our HOA has a lot to do in terms of enforcing both its own rules and local laws (e.g., our county has a dog/cat leash law) when it comes to these "domestic" animals.
Also - communities like the one I live in have architectural rules regarding fences. The only allowable fences are medium height with relatively wide slats. Designed to keep children out of yards with pools (they can also contain larger dogs). They won't contain animals like chickens - and we'd never in a million years allow something like a "chicken fence". You also have to deal with state and local building codes (including hurricane wind codes) and community architectural review standards for any structure - including something like a chicken coop (or a dog house for that matter). So I think it unlikely that areas like the one I live in will allow chickens or goats anytime soon. If anything - they will tighten rules on so-called "domestic" animals.
At least where I live - I don't think people should have problems with this. We have all kinds of living in this metro area. From urban to suburban to semi-rural to really rural (my county is the cabbage and potato capital of Florida - lots of big farms). You can pick your property to suit your lifestyle. If you want to live in a suburban golf community - you can move into my community. If you want to raise chickens and goats - you live elsewhere (and "elsewhere" is within 10 miles of where I live).
FWIW - our raccoons' favorite food is peanut butter and white bread sandwiches . Robyn
P.S. I realize I'm not exactly a "poster child" for this forum. I'm not very self-sufficient (but after 40+ years in Florida - I do know tons about hurricane preparedness - guess no one is totally imperfect ).
Hmmm perhaps having a different priority when growing and storing, and a different diet, may be some reasons that you don't see field upon field of grains and huge silos on an Amish farm?
Most Amish farms that I spent time on in PA, including the one right next to my Mom-Mom and Pop-Pop's farm, were bio-diverse... different animals, vegetables, fruits and grains grown for many different reasons. Not all one or two things from fence to fence. They strive to have as complete an ecosystem on their farms as possible - a full bio-circle. They also eat a much more varied diet, not at all lining up with the USDA Food Pyramid, and most of that is fresh in season, cold-stored, home canned or dried. They don't normally eat as much grain, and you don't need to put up tons every year in order to make your daily loaf and your breakfast porridge... so most of the grains they grow and store in silos would be forage for their livestock, not for personal consumption or profit. They also don't necessarily care about wringing the absolute highest yields out of every square inch of dirt... they grow what they need and let the soil stay healthy. Including letting some *gasp* weeds grow in their rows and fields... because some weeds are actually very healthy for the soil and are beneficial to the crop they're growing in as long as they don't take over.
Please list which weeds are beneficial to the crop they're growing in-----corn,soybean, alfalfa
If weeds are so durn beneficial, why do I see the Amish wife and kids out hoeing their gardren ?
Evidently the wife doesn't believe her husband when he preaches about those beneficial weeds.
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), and he stressed only taking a little from each thing that we found and then moving on to another part or another plant so that next year there would some to harvest and the forest animals could eat some, too. When he didn't find "enough" of one thing, that was ok because you're sure to find plenty of another thing, so your basket was still full. Accept the gifts and be thankful for them, and you will keep receiving them. Expect the gifts and keep demanding them, and you will be sure to leave empty-handed.
- lots of big farms). You can pick your property to suit your lifestyle. If you want to live in a suburban golf community - you can move into my community. If you want to raise chickens and goats - you live elsewhere (and "elsewhere" is within 10 miles of where I live).
