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Isn't there a significant initial investment in going off-grid (solar panels, wind turbines, and/or whatever other systems are needed)? The amortization of those costs would have to be figured into any "savings" one would reap from not paying the utility bills. Wouldn't that be hard to generalize because utility costs vary tremendously around the country? And people's utility costs can vary a lot even from neighbor to neighbor because of people's different habits. For example, I heat my house to 62 degrees Fahrenheit so I save by doing that, but most folks would want it warmer. These are genuine questions; I am not real knowledgeable about the economics of going off-grid so I am curious to get answers from those of you who are.
There is of course a significant initial investment. The solar panels & the pump for the well alone were pricey. For us, there is no choice since our place has no electric or phone line availability, nor even a way to get heavy equipment or even a dump truck in or out. But it's abutting national forest & is a gem to us. For some like us "off-the-grid" is a necessity. We chose strawbale & alternative building methods like rubble trench foundation due to the ease & manageability of 2-person construction.
I am still in the "preparing to build" stage. To have the local REMC come in and lay wire in a trench I dig to the homesite will cost me $15K. They will be happy to spread that amount over the first five or so years that I will be buying power from them on a monthly basis.
Or I can spend $15K on setting up my own grid of solar and wind with battery back-up and invest in a few hundred gallons of fuel for the generator just in case.
Isn't there a significant initial investment in going off-grid (solar panels, wind turbines, and/or whatever other systems are needed)? The amortization of those costs would have to be figured into any "savings" one would reap from not paying the utility bills. Wouldn't that be hard to generalize because utility costs vary tremendously around the country? And people's utility costs can vary a lot even from neighbor to neighbor because of people's different habits. For example, I heat my house to 62 degrees Fahrenheit so I save by doing that, but most folks would want it warmer. These are genuine questions; I am not real knowledgeable about the economics of going off-grid so I am curious to get answers from those of you who are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lollykoko
I am still in the "preparing to build" stage. To have the local REMC come in and lay wire in a trench I dig to the homesite will cost me $15K. They will be happy to spread that amount over the first five or so years that I will be buying power from them on a monthly basis.
Or I can spend $15K on setting up my own grid of solar and wind with battery back-up and invest in a few hundred gallons of fuel for the generator just in case.
Decisions, decisions.......
This answers Escort Rider's questions. and I was about to post pretty much the same thing as lollykoko. Depending on how far you are from the nearest place to tie into the grid, you could end up spending as much or even less on your own system and be energy independant. In this case, you don't actually recover the difference in savings until you have had the system for quite some time. However, you no longer run the the greater risk of power outages due to downed or damaged lines that is common in rural areas. Many times, the further out you are, the longer it can take to get your power restored. The reason is practical, but knowing the power companies are doing the practical thing isn't of comfort when your power has been out for 2-3 weeks.
For us, the security of paying upfront and knowing our power needs are taken care of for the rest of our lives makes the costs worth it.
That is a common misconception.
The earth is a poor insulator, and being underground is not the same as being insulated. In fact, one should think of the earth as a large heat sink. You need a thermal break between any underground structure and the earth.
I suppose I should have said that a home that is partially underground is more protected from the elements, rather than being better insulated. I was basically thinking, as you said, that the earth acts as a heat sink, regulating the temperature, making it easier to keep the space inside the home comfortable, since it would stay at a more constant temperature than if it were completely above ground (somewhat like living in a cave).
Isn't there a significant initial investment in going off-grid (solar panels, wind turbines, and/or whatever other systems are needed)? The amortization of those costs would have to be figured into any "savings" one would reap from not paying the utility bills. Wouldn't that be hard to generalize because utility costs vary tremendously around the country? And people's utility costs can vary a lot even from neighbor to neighbor because of people's different habits. For example, I heat my house to 62 degrees Fahrenheit so I save by doing that, but most folks would want it warmer. These are genuine questions; I am not real knowledgeable about the economics of going off-grid so I am curious to get answers from those of you who are.
Going off-grid will require a significant initial investment if one plans to live like most folks in the city live. If you expect to use a large refrigerator, big screen TV, computer, air conditioner, garbage disposal, 1000W stereo, and all those other electric and electronic devices, yes, you will need to spend a lot.
If, on the other hand, you can be comfortable with passive heating and cooling, a meat locker and root cellar for food storage (instead of refrigeration), and employ many of the other energy saving concepts shown in the video, you may not have much need for electricity. If that's the case, you may not need to invest much.
The lifestyle change would be the hardest thing to overcome, in my opinion. I've tried it when I've gone camping, and other than food storage, I've been able to adjust my life accordingly. The food storage issue is the tough one for me, at least when camping, because using an ice chest requires ice, which isn't always readily available in the "boonies" where I usually am when I need it. Also, when camping, the temperature is usually rather moderate, making heating and cooling less significant at those times.
I was basically thinking, as you said, that the earth acts as a heat sink, regulating the temperature, making it easier to keep the space inside the home comfortable, since it would stay at a more constant temperature ...
Not quite correct.
A heat sink means you keep pumping in more and more heat, and the temperature doesn't rise that much.
If the sublevel temperature was 72F, then you're golden.
But if it was 65F and you wanted 72F, then you're s.o.l.
The temperature differential from subsoil to house is smaller than if above ground, but you still need to insulate your sublevel structure from that soil to reap the benefits.
Heat moves to cold.
If you think in terms of specific heat, you will understand why you won't save on energy trying to heat an uninsulated basement where the average temperature is below what your comfort level is. It will take far too much heat to warm up all that earth.
Not quite correct.
A heat sink means you keep pumping in more and more heat, and the temperature doesn't rise that much.
If the sublevel temperature was 72F, then you're golden.
But if it was 65F and you wanted 72F, then you're s.o.l.
The temperature differential from subsoil to house is smaller than if above ground, but you still need to insulate your sublevel structure from that soil to reap the benefits.
Heat moves to cold.
If you think in terms of specific heat, you will understand why you won't save on energy trying to heat an uninsulated basement where the average temperature is below what your comfort level is. It will take far too much heat to warm up all that earth.
These are great points to keep in mind, and they show where my thinking was flawed. Thank you for posting.
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