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Even in countries that experienced true hunger or came close, and where people still practice living off the land, cities still fare better than rural places in terms of food supplies in the time of crisis.
Most rural people in the States have zero capacity of survival and providing own food, they don't grow vegetable gardens, don't keep cattle, not even chickens, mostly, unlike their grandparents.
I doubt there'd be situation in the States where city people would head out, spending valuable gasoline, to take that bag of potatoes from Uncle Joe.
Rural areas have no better water security than cities. Clean water supply is a challenge with many wells and pump needs to operate. Water supply will be the last thing cut off in cities, even if there's actual armed fighting in the streets. Nobody is going to run to rural places for that bucket from Joe's well.
Personally, I would first try my hand at the suburbs. I wouldn't be in a hurry to run from civilization, under most circumstances. But, if you read through this thread, it's a paranoia that you will see over and over again,......rural folks worried about the city folks coming for their supplies, if SHTF. If the city folk wanna come, there isn't much that anyone is going to be able to do about it.
Your knowledge of water supply is clearly limited. For instance, read up on the vulnerable, delicate Los Angeles water supply system. One big earthquake could easily cause water catastrophe for Southern California.
I would go as far to say that earthquake, resulting in water supply issues, would be the most likely SHTF scenario for Southern California. Even in that scenario, it is unlikely to result in "city dwellers descending and preying upon the rural".
As far as food,....if there was a SHTF scenario, and the city food supplies were depleted, you aren't going to live off the land in Detroit. If the cities have no food, the people left will have no choice but to roll off to rural lands, in search of survival.
Again.....this all depends on the situation. But, I agree that the general fear is a highly paranoid one.
This is in response to all the rural posters that were describing what will happen when the "city dwellers" roll through their homesteads. I'm assuming the fear is that the city people will quickly expire all resources, and be left roaming the countryside for food and water. If this happens, the smart ones will amass, because there is power and safety in numbers. If these groups roll up on a rural single family homestead, they will do as they wish, and take what they want.
This completely depends on the crisis. If the crisis is a food shortage and clean municipal drinking water, people will flee the cities in a hurry. If it's an unstoppable, contagious virus, people will flee the cities in a hurry. It all depends on the situation.
Again,....my comments were in response to the many rural posters here, who are clearly paranoid about the "city dwellers" trying to take over their supplies and homestead.
Please provide citations. I have seen numerous posts on this forum from city people who brag about their ability to overwhelm rural people, but I haven't noticed the rural sentiment that you describe.
Better late than never.........
City dwellers in northern NH would just be easy pickings...... If you have a skill that is hands on and might be of use, like hand tools for gardening and a strong back we might let you stay, but not if things are too tight.
With the recent election coming out the way it did there might be people who don't think like they did, and strangers would not be welcomed a bit, and in fact would be seen as a danger. That danger might be eliminated with out question.
The old gas grass or ass might apply.
We rurals don't need anyone coming as a stranger...... We won't support you unless maybe you are willing to work at hard labor...... Don't think is will be easy labor either or that in this day and age when everything 'equal' has been shoved down our throats that you will be less than equal.....
Meaning you will work or you will die.
Some people no doubt would thrive doing the work, as I would and have and still do. others would not, and on the first whine they would either leave or die.
It's a pretty simple thing after society breaks down.. You either work or you die and that applies to me as much as anyone.
Modern man has some very silly notions on what it takes to survive.
A stock pile of junk, tools and food will only take one so far. if you don't have serious living skills and your supplies run out yer dead meat.....
That could just mean your lighters won't work and your matches got wet........ On that day learning How To start fire by friction will be a tad too late.
My driveway is 1/2 mile long....... Most locals don't know this place exists. I own a old town dump sign and a old rusty chain to set out at the town rd. It's a dirt road too, and the sign says closed....
The one saving grace a city dweller could do coming in here would be yelling Hello as loud as he can from a distance to make himself known long before i can smell him...
That city dweller might live long enough to leave...
How many posts like this do you need, Happy In Wyoming?
Cattle? Bison in Fla?? That would be a great way to get shot...... The average city dweller wouldn't know what to do after he pulled the trigger in the first place.
He would be standing there pickin his ass wondering how long before a burger popped out wrapped in tin foil..
I'll tell you what.... I see some body walking around here I never saw before with a rifle and that will be my rifle on the next step.... Rural dwellers are not going to ask any questions when they see a stranger with a gun walking around in places the strangers should be in terms of SHTF...
I don't raise live stock but i know people who do. Shooting any just because you can't see a house or a barn fer sure ain't what to do........
There just about isn't a postage stamp hunk of land left anymore that isn't own private or by the Govt. if you are gonna poach make it be off the govt.
All the time I hear city dwellers from Boston talk about coming here to the mt's in NH as if there si something they could do and or there is something that might support them when they have exactly 0 living skills.
There won't be and as it is now in winter ski season, come Monday the store shelves are bare till the next Thursday. Sure they see well stocked shelves, but they don't know that is a farce...... Ain't nuthin left after they all go home....
In hard times with nothing in stores no paper dollars or plastic credit cards are gonna go very far....
Don't know about Wisconisin, but I doubt folks there are much different that here and I know the folks in the mts of the Carolina's are no different than here, except maybe for the way they tawk!
In SHTF going places very far isn't a good way to ride out much..... if you have a place in a location already that might be one thing... But to take off with the Notion of walking for 40 years in the desert only worked one time and for one group of people..... That isn't gonna happen again...
I gotta admit it would be very interesting to see a bunch of slicks gutting a large food bearing animal though....... Dozen folks looking like they were to prayer eh! All of em down on their knees........ LOL
Whatever you might think, Mac is not kidding himself. There are masses of people in this country too ignorant to even cook a decent meal for themselves. They have lived their entire life on food that was either prepared by others or taken out of boxes, cans, and bags. All that before we even get into food preferences(many native Americans starved rather than eat a different diet, when no bison were to be had) and superstitions. I have known city people over the years who adamantly refused to drive to my house in the country in broad daylight because they were afraid they would become lost and fall victim to whatever horror we country folks are immune to. I have known many who are utterly afraid of cattle. Or dogs. Or ANY wild animal. I have had them look askance at me and refuse samples of venison roast, deer sausage, and other fine foods, due to unfamiliarity or the opinion that eating an animal one killed an butchered(especially a wild one) was disgusting. They would skip lunch rather than eat what I offered.
Now, both Mac and I know that not all city-dwellers are incompetent in the ways of nature, but the vast majority are. They will scare game plumb out of the country as they move through it, all the while freezing, dehydrating and starving if it is winter, or roasting, dehydrating and starving while being feasted on by creatures they did not know existed if it is summer. If it is summer, they may drop from dehydration or a dirty-water-related illness(typhoid fever, anyone?) before ever so much as seeing game. In fact, upon hearing a doe crashing through the brush as it flees their rank and noisy intrusion, some of them will flee blindly in the opposite direction, dropping whatever useful items(or not) that they were carrying, in a bid to gain more speed to escape what they believe is after them. And if they suddenly feel lost? They will panic, to be found later after running in circles, shedding even their clothes in their blind panic. Don't think so? Ask the "experienced" hunters who have been found frozen, stark naked in the snow, after walking a circular track and shedding equipment and clothing all along the way. Mac is very much correct about what will happen to MOST city-dwellers once they flee what they know for unfamiliar territory. The fact that what he has to say is not necessarily easy on the ears(especially to those it descibes), does not make it any less correct for all that.
Here's another classic, Happy In Montana. There are plenty more gems, like this one, if you take the time to read through the thread.
This is in response to all the rural posters that were describing what will happen when the "city dwellers" roll through their homesteads. I'm assuming the fear is that the city people will quickly expire all resources, and be left roaming the countryside for food and water. If this happens, the smart ones will amass, because there is power and safety in numbers. If these groups roll up on a rural single family homestead, they will do as they wish, and take what they want.
This completely depends on the crisis. If the crisis is a food shortage and clean municipal drinking water, people will flee the cities in a hurry. If it's an unstoppable, contagious virus, people will flee the cities in a hurry. It all depends on the situation.
Again,....my comments were in response to the many rural posters here, who are clearly paranoid about the "city dwellers" trying to take over their supplies and homestead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
Please provide citations. I have seen numerous posts on this forum from city people who brag about their ability to overwhelm rural people, but I haven't noticed the rural sentiment that you describe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz
Better late than never.........
City dwellers in northern NH would just be easy pickings...... If you have a skill that is hands on and might be of use, like hand tools for gardening and a strong back we might let you stay, but not if things are too tight.
With the recent election coming out the way it did there might be people who don't think like they did, and strangers would not be welcomed a bit, and in fact would be seen as a danger. That danger might be eliminated with out question.
The old gas grass or ass might apply.
We rurals don't need anyone coming as a stranger...... We won't support you unless maybe you are willing to work at hard labor...... Don't think is will be easy labor either or that in this day and age when everything 'equal' has been shoved down our throats that you will be less than equal.....
Meaning you will work or you will die.
Some people no doubt would thrive doing the work, as I would and have and still do. others would not, and on the first whine they would either leave or die.
It's a pretty simple thing after society breaks down.. You either work or you die and that applies to me as much as anyone.
Modern man has some very silly notions on what it takes to survive.
A stock pile of junk, tools and food will only take one so far. if you don't have serious living skills and your supplies run out yer dead meat.....
That could just mean your lighters won't work and your matches got wet........ On that day learning How To start fire by friction will be a tad too late.
My driveway is 1/2 mile long....... Most locals don't know this place exists. I own a old town dump sign and a old rusty chain to set out at the town rd. It's a dirt road too, and the sign says closed....
The one saving grace a city dweller could do coming in here would be yelling Hello as loud as he can from a distance to make himself known long before i can smell him...
That city dweller might live long enough to leave...
Quote:
Originally Posted by FootHilla
How many posts like this do you need, Happy In Wyoming?
I’m not fearful of roving city hordes invading my rural space at all. But the fact that posters on here think the urbanites would easily overwhelm rural areas and strong holds is laughable at best. The fact they think urbanites are better armed and equipped than their rural counter parts is also laughable at best, do you really think that ole Bubba only has a single shot shotgun and grandpas muzzleloader? You might be in for a big surprise. The fact is also that in a true SHTF scenario where one would have to leave the cities to survive, also means they’d be walking and half of them or more would be dead by the time they got there.
Plus there’s the whole home field advantage aspect not being taken into account here. Even the rag tag bunch of goat herding Taliban proved more trouble than it’s worth for two different world superpowers.
Well armed urbanites might be able to overtake the suburbs and some close in rural area grandmas, but they won’t make it much further than that in a true SHTF scenario that actually involves this. Think no roads and walking in. Have to carry all those guns and ammo, plus food and water with no Starbucks or Uber eats. Urbanites have maybe an effective 50 mile radius outside their cities at best and should just stay in their cities for their own safety if it ever comes to this.
It wouldn’t even be a fair fight.
Last edited by 6.7traveler; 04-11-2020 at 01:44 AM..
I’m not fearful of roving city hordes invading my rural space at all. But the fact that posters on here think the urbanites would easily overwhelm rural areas and strong holds is laughable at best. The fact they think urbanites are better armed and equipped than their rural counter parts is also laughable at best, do you really think that ole Bubba only has a single shot shotgun and grandpas muzzleloader? You might be in for a big surprise. The fact is also that in a true SHTF scenario where one would have to leave the cities to survive, also means they’d be walking and half of them or more would be dead by the time they got there.
Plus there’s the whole home field advantage aspect not being taken into account here. Even the rag tag bunch of goat herding Taliban proved more trouble than it’s worth for two different world superpowers.
Well armed urbanites might be able to overtake the suburbs and some close in rural area grandmas, but they won’t make it much further than that in a true SHTF scenario that actually involves this. Think no roads and walking in. Have to carry all those guns and ammo, plus food and water with no Starbucks or Uber eats. Urbanites have maybe an effective 50 mile radius outside their cities at best and should just stay in their cities for their own safety if it ever comes to this.
It wouldn’t even be a fair fight.
What you're failing to understand is that you would be brutally outnumbered. 84% of Americans live in urban areas. Do you understand how hard it would be for 16% of the population to defend themselves against 84% of the population?
If the urbanites want your stuff, you'd quickly be overcome by gang warfare. Once a gang of them shows up at your homestead, you're toast.
You seem to think they would just come after you one "city dweller" at a time. Maybe some dumb ones would try that. But the intelligent urbanites are going to overwhelm you with numbers. They'll descend on you like the Hawaiians descending on Captain Cook. It won't matter what guns you had,....because they won't be your guns for long.
But, you are right about one thing,....it wouldn't even be a fair fight.
Last edited by FootHilla; 04-11-2020 at 03:19 AM..
Since it's totally unrealistic to have a 100 acre compound in the middle of nowhere with 20 of your most trustworthy and trained friends, here is my best case realistic scenario.
I think my ideal location is in a smaller town with lower population density in the surrounding area.
You are going to need support. You are going to need mutual defense. You will need some semblance of law, order and government. You need others help. You want the type of town where people pitch in and go above and beyond to help. You want the people who will do the right thing even when no one is looking.
Trying to go it alone won't last in the long run if you are in the east. Sooner or later someone will want what you have. Out west youight be able to go alone if you are remote enough.
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