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While I cannot answer for lifelongMOgal, I know the answer for many other people. As all here know, a 12-gauge generates some rather enthusiastic recoil. Many people, male and female btw, find that a pistol-grip stock (to be absolutely clear, one with NO buttstock) places too much wear, tear and strain on the wrist.
-- Nighteyes
Hmm, I guess if you shoot it a lot, but if you're using it in a defensive manner ( inside your home) why would the recoil matter ?
Hmm, I guess if you shoot it a lot, but if you're using it in a defensive manner ( inside your home) why would the recoil matter ?
You can get off ONE shot, tkdmom, but if it badly damages the wrist on your dominant hand (most likely the right), how about a second or third? I mean, I'm a big burly fellow, and I prefer having a pistol grip AND a buttstock on my shotguns. It's your choice, of course. Just try it BEFORE you begin relying on it, okay?
a 20 gauge DOES have less recoil than a 12 gauge (Simple Physics) however there are reduced recoil 12 gauge shells. (Just use them for training)
Also: For a novice (And many others) UNDER STRESS it is MORE likely that you will 'Short Stroke' a Pump Action shotgun. SO. With tested loads, low volume situation, it is likely that a Semi 12 guage will be MORE reliable 'real world'
(Although I prefer a Pump because the action of pumping gets you back on target more rapidly than a semi. I sold my Benelli and prefer one of my Winchester model 12's)
No, that is NOT what I said. That is a PART of what I said taken out of context so as to change it's meaning.
AFTER I highlighted it and pointed it out... you missed the Section in question AGAIN... so I'm not going to bother repeating myself.
Luck.
I'm not going to argue with you. I have a double barrel 20 gauge and a semi auto 20 gauge, Three double barrel 12 gauges, three Rem 870 pump 12 gauges and four Rem 1100's. I know what recoil is. Usually 20 gauges are a lighter weight than a 12 gauge, and therefore their recoil is as much as a heavier 12 gauge. There are a few less than a hundred members to our cowboy shooting club, who shoot often, most of them have shot 20 gauges and 12 gauges and they have the same thought I do. The felt recoil from a 20 gauge is as much as the recoil from a 12 gauge. You might call it simple physics, I call it simple minded.
Well I know a little about recoil too, and if that's the game try a buck n ball load. Thats a .735 round ball, 9 .36 cal round balls and another .735 resting on top of 90 grains of FFG in a Bess. That load will rock an oak tree.
I agree 20 can kick worse than a 12, due to being lighter built and sometimes with a poor ergonomics. I never owned one, but I fix a few.
I got 2 Model 12's but one is 16Ga. I got a 12 Ga Ranger and a Baker 12 side by side, rather rare gun these days since they went out in 1933 I believe. More or less all of these are a bit longish for HD.
I have a double barrel 20 gauge and a semi auto 20 gauge, Three double barrel 12 gauges, three Rem 870 pump 12 gauges and four Rem 1100's. I know what recoil is. Usually 20 gauges are a lighter weight than a 12 gauge, and therefore their recoil is as much as a heavier 12 gauge. There are a few less than a hundred members to our cowboy shooting club, who shoot often, most of them have shot 20 gauges and 12 gauges and they have the same thought I do. The felt recoil from a 20 gauge is as much as the recoil from a 12 gauge. You might call it simple physics, I call it simple minded.
If you go with something entirely different... sure. But assuming 12 vs 20 is the only factor... (Or very close) Ex: a Remington 870 Youth model in 20, will NOT recoil more than a Remington 870 in 12.
(Why do you think they sell the youth model in 20)
OR, my First shotgun, a little Crackbarrel 20... DOES recoil less than one of the single shot 12's I've got laying around.
-Throwing other factors in there, sure it changes. All else being equal however (As If you were ACTUALLY comparing the rounds ve semi vs pump or something...) again Physics.
Sorry you cannot grasp that.
-Oh, since you seem to be having such a hard time with this... you should do the 'test' (If you will) with identical shot.
And stow the insults if you will. It does nothing to help your case and tempts me to return the favor and I'm trying to be good.
You can get off ONE shot, tkdmom, but if it badly damages the wrist on your dominant hand (most likely the right), how about a second or third? I mean, I'm a big burly fellow, and I prefer having a pistol grip AND a buttstock on my shotguns. It's your choice, of course. Just try it BEFORE you begin relying on it, okay?
My reason for not liking pistol grips on HD guns is in winter I wear trade shirts to bed. These are pretty long and pretty loose garments made of wool, and things get tangled up in them pretty easy. I have never worn a womans night gown before but any robe men wear is about the same as that or any robe a woman might wear, and getting tangled up isn't my idea of a good time.
But then I tend to like rifles and shot guns with no pistol grip under the tradtional pistol grip designs too. I prefer straight wrists on butt stocks when I have a choice.
Maybe the term pistol grip needs to be defined more. Many shot guns have the tradional type which is not like say the AK-47 type pistol grip a bit.
IMO a HD gun needs clean lines so it won't snag on night wear.
Here is one thing that is worth bringing up one more time (because I keep seeing scary posts):
If you are going to get a home defense firearm, don't plan on buying it and standing it in the corner to collect dust until one day a "zombie" happens to slither through the window. If that's what you plan to do, don't even bother getting a firearm. It's like buying a bicycle, not knowing how to ride it, and then one day you decide you'll learn to ride it on a rush hour freeway in LA. Not a good idea. You MUST practice before you need the skill.
My reason for not liking pistol grips on HD guns is in winter I wear trade shirts to bed. These are pretty long and pretty loose garments made of wool, and things get tangled up in them pretty easy. I have never worn a womans night gown before but any robe men wear is about the same as that or any robe a woman might wear, and getting tangled up isn't my idea of a good time.
IMO a HD gun needs clean lines so it won't snag on night wear.
Sleep naked; stay warm. When you wear any clothing you may be sure that it will absorb perspiration. That means that even if you can't feel it, you'll be in a damp environment. When you're naked, on the other hand, it does not collect close to you. I've tried both naked and clothed, summer and winter, inside and outside. Naked is better. Perspiration cools. That's why if you dunk yourself in water dressed on a hot desert day, you'll acually get cold. But dunk yourself in the same water on the same day naked; You'll dry off almost instantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisC
Here is one thing that is worth bringing up one more time (because I keep seeing scary posts):
If you are going to get a home defense firearm, don't plan on buying it and standing it in the corner to collect dust until one day a "zombie" happens to slither through the window. If that's what you plan to do, don't even bother getting a firearm. It's like buying a bicycle, not knowing how to ride it, and then one day you decide you'll learn to ride it on a rush hour freeway in LA. Not a good idea. You MUST practice before you need the skill.
I hadn't shot my M-1 carbine in several years, but have shot it previously a good deal. When I read your post mentioning the M-1, I was reminded how much fun it was. I was OK with it from the first, but was far better after ninety rounds.. or even five.
I must tell you that that was a great post on the Judge. I have one, stainless with thee inch chambers, and love it. I like the 000 Buck the best. But I haven't been in a gunfight yet. The rifled slug doesn't even look good on paper. I'd use .45 Colt. I'd stick to factory standard loads, however; The Taurus is a small gun. All else being equal, less metal in the gun means more stress is imparted to it.
HW you ain't married to my wife the blanket hog. We use Hudson Bay and Whitney real thick wool blankets all year long, as our bed room never exceeds 55 degrees unless I do something.
The sheets change in season from summer and plain cotton to Fall or Spring which is cotton flannel, and in winter no sheets at all just wool. In winter I am not naked to sleep but wear a woolen trade shirt to keep off the draft. In winter I heat this room with up to 4 aladdian lamps and that's it.
Winter camping at well below 0 I wear long johns in a sleeping bag, because that cold nylon is a nasty shock. That is with a vappor barrier I am in, then a light bag in a down bag rated for 0. That all goes in a gortex bivey sack with a ridge rest closed cell pad and a thermarest open cell pad.
My VB is home made but as good as store bought, my wife's is store bought because I ran out of the material.
I got a lesson: On a winter trech about 7 days out, one morning when I woke up I discovered ice chrystals on the outter bag and in the feathers. The VB blew a seam! I slung the bag in the trees at tree line off the ground and the day came in sunny albeit -40. I seweed up the bad seam and aired the VB out that day too.
Primitive I use 2 blankets in the same temps but sleep with as much as i can, and get off the snow/ ground one way or another.
Twice I answered the door to wackos with a gun, other wize naked. They really don't like THAT
Nothing says 'LEAVE NOW' to a bad guy, like a naked man with a gun.
Yeah Chris I didn't say vit well enough, That review was good. Very good.
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I need some advice on home defense
