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the cities will burn on their own. Look what happened in Cheznia. idiots will get stoned or drunk or ill/exhausted, start a fire and be unable to control it. They have fire dept's for a REASON, dudes. One building doesn't burn by itself. If you don't stop it, often the entire area burns. Witness the Great Chiccago fire.
Yes, it always amused me in "The Stand" about the lack of putrefying bodies in NYC or even in Boulder where they ended up. If that many people died that quickly, the stench in three summer days would be enough to smell for miles. Not to mention that the animal and creepy-crawly predators would have moved in and been having a field day; in all of those churches, etc, there would have been very few whole bodies left sitting. If you've ever had to get just blood out of a carpet, imagine what all of the bodily wastes from all of the rotting flesh would take to clean out of just one family's house. Whatever OTHER diseases those people might have had could be spread by every living thing that feasted on them, not to mention the bacteria that would proliferate in and on them. In the event of a major catastrophe, it would be best to burn fully-involved areas. Although that smell isn't too pretty, either.
Sorry, but on EMS we were often called to long-dead bodies that had been discovered. It kinda grossed people out one day when DH and I were standing out in the broiling sun, waiting for the coroner, and eating our Triples and Frosties. (We had already run 3 calls that AM and we were HUNGRY - and the victim was beyond any help we could offer.) We were, however, unlike the cops and other folk who responded, smart enough to stand UPwind.
I always carried Vicks Vaporub with me [just a little dab on the upper lip and smells never bothered me]
it aint the smell that will be the issue if shtf. It's all the disease vectors that will be the concern. And the dog packs that naturaly come to view people as being food, after they feed on humans a few days.
Catapulting corpses into the midst of an enemy army or into a besieged city has been a common practice for well over two thousand years. The ancients understood contagion. Writers of all times have condemned this practice, primarily when it was used as a means of attack. But many have approved when it was used defensively. Leaving poisoned food to sicken or kill or quantities of debilitating liquor where the enemy will find them is another time-honored practice. Armies have frequently catapulted containers of bees, wasps, scorpions, and other venomnous creatures into the midst of enemies and frequently turned the tide of battle. In World War I both sides used booby traps that released swarms of bees. I'm sure that if cities were repositories of contagious diseases some enterprising soul would soon make use of them.
True true, biological and chemical warfare has been around forever. Many a siege was ended with well-flung corpses or an infected body left in the water supply.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
Without government orders I can't imagine a group exposing themselve to health hazards just to burn the cities for the common good. Besides, the smoke itself would be an effective vector of all sorts of nasty things. It's well to recall that when a bomber filled with 130 octane aviation gas crashed into the Empire State Building it did remarkably little damage. That building, and many more just as sturdy, are still there today. These buidings are not subject to easy incineration. But the smoldering ruins would be just as deadly.
Yep, it would be up to individuals who wanted to reclaim the area to go through the sturdier buildings with incineration units, or at least to set fires inside the buildings on each floor so it would burn out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy in Wyoming
If there's a real collapse the survivors will do what's necessary to survive without thought of altruism. The altruists will die in the very early stages.
Doubt anyone will be doing much for altruistic purposes. Heck, I doubt that folks would do anything extremely risk even if they were ordered to... it will have to be for their own good/purposes. The civilized ideal of the "common good" will take a long time to reestablish itself.
The Crash
At 9:49 a.m., the ten-ton, B-25 bomber smashed into the north side of the Empire State Building. The majority of the plane hit the 79th floor, creating a hole in the building eighteen feet wide and twenty feet high. The plane's high-octane fuel exploded, hurtling flames down the side of the building and inside through hallways and stairwells all the way down to the 75th floor.
World War II had caused many to shift to a six-day work week; thus there were many people at work in the Empire State Building that Saturday. The plane crashed into the offices of the War Relief Services of the National Catholic Welfare Conference. Catherine O'Connor described the crash: [blockquote shade="no"] The plane exploded within the building. There were five or six seconds - I was tottering on my feet trying to keep my balance - and three-quarters of the office was instantaneously consumed in this sheet of flame. One man was standing inside the flame. I could see him. It was a co-worker, Joe Fountain. His whole body was on fire. I kept calling to him, "Come on, Joe; come on, Joe." He walked out of it.2 Joe Fountain died several days later. Eleven of the office workers were burned to death, some still sitting at their desks, others while trying to run from the flames.
One of the engines and part of the landing gear hurtled across the 79th floor, through wall partitions and two fire walls, and out the south wall's windows to fall onto a twelve-story building across 33rd Street. The other engine flew into an elevator shaft and landed on an elevator car. The car began to plummet, slowed somewhat by emergency safety devices. Miraculously, when help arrived at the remains of the elevator car in the basement, the two women inside the car were still alive.
Some debris from the crash fell to the streets below, sending pedestrians scurrying for cover, but most fell onto the buildings setbacks at the fifth floor. Still, a bulk of the wreckage remained stuck in the side of the building. After the flames were extinguished and the remains of the victims removed, the rest of the wreckage was removed through the building.
The plane crash killed 14 people (11 office workers and the three crewmen) plus injured 26 others. Though the integrity of the Empire State Building was not affected, the cost of the damage done by the crash was $1 million.
Speaking from experience, you would not believe how quickly gas disappears after a disaster. We had stored 30 gallons of gas for Katrina. It lasted about 2 weeks. Local supplies quickly evaporated and we had to go further and further just to get the basics - and find the gas to go get the basics!!!!
I just can't see armed bands of people scurrying about after a catastrophe for long.
My mother lived through WWII. She said the available gas severly rationed. She also said crime went down. It's much harder to rob a bank and run away. They bartered their sugar coupons for gas and meat.
I laughted at the Road Warrior series (Mel Gibson). Fighting over gas I could see, but all those heavily armoured vehicles running hysterically about - no way.
Location: where you sip the tea of the breasts of the spinsters of Utica
8,297 posts, read 14,161,809 times
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Hoo boy, Hurricane Sandy has messed up living long term for zillions of people in NYC and New Jersey. Homes destroyed, the floodwater isn't going to be pumped out to sea for quite a while, electricity out for millions and not due to be mostly restored for another 10 days, natural gas out for many areas ...... and a cold front/storm possibly going to hit in 5-6 days with freezing temps. I hope most of them have some place to bug out for a good long time.
Well this is one case where staying in town wouldn't be the best option! And due to climate destabilization (whether you think it's natural or man-made) there will be more and more such disasters hitting major cities.
Yeah it kinda blows that theory right out of the water huh?
On edit: i forgot about this thread and how it is suddenly current. I re-read page 1 and I caught my own bitchin' about that watermellon that exploded too LOL
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What a bloomin mess! Super Ditz strikes again! 
but on EMS we were often called to long-dead bodies that had been discovered. It kinda grossed people out one day when DH and I were standing out in the broiling sun, waiting for the coroner, and eating our Triples and Frosties. (We had already run 3 calls that AM and we were HUNGRY - and the victim was beyond any help we could offer.) We were, however, unlike the cops and other folk who responded, smart enough to stand UPwind.
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plane hits Empire State Building
