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Old 07-17-2011, 05:47 AM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,621,782 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
They may smile, but they don't forget and foolishly let down their guards.

As if politics is the only way people judge others for potential friendships. If you were so keen on "turning the other cheek" or being so open minded, everyone would be your friend but I'm guessing you use some sort of gauge, don't you?

Or do you hang out with drug addicts, losers, lazy people and whiners? Because, hey, one should be open and not disregard based on a piece of their character.

Sorry, no, I agree with the others, I most certainly do use politics to figure out who I'm going to befriend and who I won't simply because those who don't think in a manner similar to mine are typically the ones voting in everything that I totally and completely stand against.

By the way, did you know that there are religious liberals, as well! There are! I know it may hurt your head to hear that but, it's the truth.
I think you are making a rather large leap from someone not agreeing with you in politics or on certain issues to "hanging out with druggies, losers". That's I think the problem with our society lately, the extreme polarization - either you are with me or you are my enemy. What this country needs at this point is a multi-party system. Judging by everything that has been happening in Washington in the last 15-20 years, we are ripe for multiple parties making coalitions in government. Otherwise, people are starting to hate and label each other even though majority are good people no matter what.

It is a shame to hold those hard-line positions (no matter what side of the fence you are on) and miss out on what otherwise might be good friendships. Everyone you meet can teach you something useful.

OD
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,176 posts, read 10,667,898 times
Reputation: 9645
I was surrounded by 'lefties' in SC, and yes, some of them were 'religious liberals'. That term is not an oxymoron. When you have people who want to 'forgive' and 'turn the other cheek' and continuously overlook, excuse, and pity the murderous, thieving, lying, abusive, and totally self-involved actions of some individuals, you have a religious community that actually encourages the "aw, it's not his fault, it was his mother/father/society/race/ that made him that way!" attitude of liberals. They would whine endlessly about the pedophiles going after their own children, the thieves that would steal from them - but they would actually go on TV to defend these criminals because "they couldn't help themselves". It was well known in that area that people who filed charges against the criminals were harassed by not only the criminals and their families, but were often sued by them (and won) if they were injured in the commission of their crimes!

Case in point - one tiny girl I knew was attacked in a parking lot at the point of a gun by a criminal demanding that she get in her car and drive him somewhere, as well as give him all of her money and Christmas packages. She threw her keys at him and ran, screaming, back to the store. He took her car and was later shot and killed by a deputy when he crashed her car during a hot pursuit, and he attacked the deputy who had been pursuing him. The little girl (she was 24) had to change her phone numbers and file a restraining order against the family of the man, who went on TV several times saying he didn't want to hurt anyone, he just wanted Christmas presents for his children! (The car he had driven to the parking lot where they met he had stolen at gunpoint earlier that evening from a couple in a motel parking lot.) Churches actually got together and prayed for the deceased criminal, that God forgive him, because he meant well. The deputy - who was injured in the fracas - was sued by the family.

No, I have no use for lefties of any stripe. They deny personal responsibility for others, while insisting that we are all responsible for the criminal behavior of others. The maundering plaintive tones of "Can't we all just get along?" and "It takes a village to raise a child!" just give the criminals and ne'er-do-wells among us an excuse for perpetrating themselves on decent hardworking people. So yeah, one of the major criteria I had for moving was to get away from all of that "aw, it's YOUR fault you can't forgive/get along with thieves, liars, crackheads, drunks, and lazy useless scumbags!" Whew. TG I did, too.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:44 AM
 
1,738 posts, read 844,246 times
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Mistygirl-- you sound a lot like me. I own my own home outright in a town I just can't wrap my heart around anymore. I'll tell you what I did/am doing. Over the course of a couple years I did several week long trips down to the area that I wanted to relocate to before I decided to come down for a whole summer (and I realize not everyone has that luxury) to see if it is really as good longer term as it seems short term. Not even half way through the summer and after making several friends, getting leads on two jobs, finding a great church, and feeling "alive" again--- I have decided to just rent my house out until it sells. That way- if it doesn't sell and I get tired of renting it out, or if I decide I made a mistake--- I can always go back after one year when my apartment lease is over here. (Plus, it's pretty nice living where someone else does the repairs, mowing, etc. for a change--- and we have a pool!) Once the house finally sells-- I can decide then whether to buy again or just keep the money in the bank and keep renting. That is a very freeing feeling at this point in time. Plus- the rental income will be paying most of my living expenses here. Also, as selling has gone down- renting has gone up! Rentals are in demand in most of the country- so you should be able to rent yours out easily enough, I'd hope.

Now--- you may be much younger than me (I am about to turn 50)--- but I just finally decided that I only get one life to live and one chance to make myself happy in this life-- so why not go for my dreams? It's not like we aren't free to go back, or move on yet again. That's the beauty of living in this country--- we are free, and it's ALL good- just different, place to place and people to people. I always ask myself what I want to remember on my deathbed? How much money I had?, what possessions I accumulated?, how "safe" I kept it??? Or do I want to remember the people I've met, the lives I've touched and those that have touched mine, and the things I've experienced and beautiful places that I've seen in this all too short journey we're all on? I choose the latter. I choose life, not merely "existence." Good luck. I hope you find your happiness, connectedness, and inner peace.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:53 AM
 
19,023 posts, read 25,917,807 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend View Post
If the religious right were truly religious, they would turn the other cheek and smile...
If you say so, I wouldn't know. I am into ravens and turtles.

On that, I see no one church saying we all go to heaven. Instead I see each church saying 'we are the only ones, going to heaven'.

I figure no one is going to heaven from any church, and the non believers ain't going either.

But I am not tangled up in any of that myself. I have read the Book of Mormen, the King James Version, The Old Testament, the Quran, and need to read more sometime when I have the time of other readings on these topics, and spend more time reading what it is I may end up beliveing, but right now the Turtle and Raven make the most sence to me, and with Manitoe.

I never met Status Quo face to face, and I sure ain't gonna start follow'n him now.
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Old 07-17-2011, 10:02 AM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,621,782 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac_Muz View Post
If you say so, I wouldn't know. I am into ravens and turtles.

On that, I see no one church saying we all go to heaven. Instead I see each church saying 'we are the only ones, going to heaven'.

I figure no one is going to heaven from any church, and the non believers ain't going either.

But I am not tangled up in any of that myself. I have read the Book of Mormen, the King James Version, The Old Testament, the Quran, and need to read more sometime when I have the time of other readings on these topics, and spend more time reading what it is I may end up beliveing, but right now the Turtle and Raven make the most sence to me, and with Manitoe.

I never met Status Quo face to face, and I sure ain't gonna start follow'n him now.
Mac, I am not religious, grew up in communism myself. I too believe "ravens and turtles" is the way, we would have been way better off had it stayed that way. I just commented on what you said, that's all.
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles area
14,017 posts, read 20,869,471 times
Reputation: 32530
Default Even in South Carolina? Heaven help us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
I was surrounded by 'lefties' in SC, and yes, some of them were 'religious liberals'. That term is not an oxymoron. When you have people who want to 'forgive' and 'turn the other cheek' and continuously overlook, excuse, and pity the murderous, thieving, lying, abusive, and totally self-involved actions of some individuals, you have a religious community that actually encourages the "aw, it's not his fault, it was his mother/father/society/race/ that made him that way!" attitude of liberals. They would whine endlessly about the pedophiles going after their own children, the thieves that would steal from them - but they would actually go on TV to defend these criminals because "they couldn't help themselves". It was well known in that area that people who filed charges against the criminals were harassed by not only the criminals and their families, but were often sued by them (and won) if they were injured in the commission of their crimes!

Case in point - one tiny girl I knew was attacked in a parking lot at the point of a gun by a criminal demanding that she get in her car and drive him somewhere, as well as give him all of her money and Christmas packages. She threw her keys at him and ran, screaming, back to the store. He took her car and was later shot and killed by a deputy when he crashed her car during a hot pursuit, and he attacked the deputy who had been pursuing him. The little girl (she was 24) had to change her phone numbers and file a restraining order against the family of the man, who went on TV several times saying he didn't want to hurt anyone, he just wanted Christmas presents for his children! (The car he had driven to the parking lot where they met he had stolen at gunpoint earlier that evening from a couple in a motel parking lot.) Churches actually got together and prayed for the deceased criminal, that God forgive him, because he meant well. The deputy - who was injured in the fracas - was sued by the family.

No, I have no use for lefties of any stripe. They deny personal responsibility for others, while insisting that we are all responsible for the criminal behavior of others. The maundering plaintive tones of "Can't we all just get along?" and "It takes a village to raise a child!" just give the criminals and ne'er-do-wells among us an excuse for perpetrating themselves on decent hardworking people. So yeah, one of the major criteria I had for moving was to get away from all of that "aw, it's YOUR fault you can't forgive/get along with thieves, liars, crackheads, drunks, and lazy useless scumbags!" Whew. TG I did, too.
I share your disgust that anyone could defend such a violent creep as you described above. That sort of thinking has been with us since the late 1960's, and maybe even before. But what surprises me is the prevalence of such thinking in South Carolina. I guess I haven't kept up with the extent of the spread of left-wing thought in this country. What a terrible shame, when common-sense decency goes out the window.
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Nebraska
4,176 posts, read 10,667,898 times
Reputation: 9645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Escort Rider View Post
I share your disgust that anyone could defend such a violent creep as you described above. That sort of thinking has been with us since the late 1960's, and maybe even before. But what surprises me is the prevalence of such thinking in South Carolina. I guess I haven't kept up with the extent of the spread of left-wing thought in this country. What a terrible shame, when common-sense decency goes out the window.
SC - the same state that aquitted the woman who locked her baby in her car in the summer while she gambled for 6 hours at a video poker place - and then drove almost home before she realized the child was dead. Yeah, it was the video poker place's fault and her addiction to gambling that killed the baby, not her fault at all.

One of my good friends there - a reporter -took a picture of her leaving the courtroom, laughing and smiling with her friends.

Yeah, SC is up to its eyes in liberals, "red state" or no. But there are a LOT of places that are like that; where criminals are never at fault, where decent people "ought to know better" by owning things that they've bought with their own hard-earned money, tempting the poor criminals to rape, robbery, and murder in broad daylight without fear of retribution or incarceration. The OP sounds like she has experiences with some of that.
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Old 07-17-2011, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Connecticut is my adopted home.
2,398 posts, read 3,826,044 times
Reputation: 7774
Sadly this has gone a bit off topic as I don't think the OP has political issues with her area.

That said...

I hate politics and I hate labels. They serve to divide people that mostly see eye to eye, that belong to the broad section of middle ground where most of us reside intellectually and politically. As I see it, no political party or stated ideology has the sole claim on righteousness being held captive by their more extreme elements and the perennial act of being bought and paid for with each election cycle. As South Park so brilliantly put it, we get to vote for either the "turd sandwich" or the "giant douche". A sad state of affairs indeed.

However as to the matter being discussed of coddling criminals, I know very few, at least up here, even the most liberal of us, that would agree with the sentiment of abrogating or excusing personal responsibility for one's actions. Yes, some people have had terrible upbringings and will need counseling to be productive members of society but after they are no longer under the sway of parents, (somewhere in one's teens) it is a personal choice to act out in anti-social ways or OTOH, to seek/get the help needed to be a better, higher functioning person. Make the wrong choice and suffer the consequences. Do the crime, do the time. Some, caught dead to rights (on video, multiple eye witnesses) in a violent act such as murder, rape and the like IMO deserve to be put out of their misery. We do that nationwide to good but unwanted pets, so I don't have a problem with taking out violent criminals and dangerous human predators for the good of the many.

Now my confession: I'm moderate with left hand leanings when it comes to the stewardship of our planet, the welfare of animals and small children. I'm also inclined toward libertarianism in food freedom and find the authority of the state (etal) intrusive in regards to material things such as food, building, security, trade, etc. And finally a communitarian in that I believe that we don't exist in a bubble and that each individual action affects others to some degree so the golden rule applies. Finally I believe that there needs to be balance between the immediacy of today and the world that we leave your (I have none) children. So what does that make me in this political landscape?

I think we each are an amalgam of similar complex political, social and ethical beliefs based upon embraced teachings and our experiences in life. The problem lies in extremity (on any side) and intolerance of even slight disagreement. Add to this the orchestrated political sideshows designed to keep us busy and confused and it's no wonder this country is a mess.

FWIW. And that's all I got to say about that...

Last edited by AK-Cathy; 07-17-2011 at 01:21 PM..
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Old 07-17-2011, 01:21 PM
 
2,878 posts, read 4,621,782 times
Reputation: 3113
Quote:
Originally Posted by AK-Cathy View Post
Sadly this has gone a bit off topic as I don't think the OP has political issues with her area.

That said...

I hate politics and I hate labels. They serve to divide people that mostly see eye to eye, that belong to the broad section of middle ground where most of us reside intellectually and politically. As I see it, no political party or stated ideology has the sole claim on righteousness being held captive by their more extreme elements and the perennial act of being bought and paid for with each election cycle. As South Park so brilliantly put it, we get to vote for either the "turd sandwich" or the "giant douche". A sad state of affairs indeed.

However as to the matter being discussed of coddling criminals, I know very few, at least up here, even the most liberal of us, that would agree with the sentiment of abrogating or excusing personal responsibility for one's actions. Yes, some people have had terrible upbringings and will need counseling to be productive members of society but after they are no longer under the sway of parents, (somewhere in one's teens) it is a personal choice to act out in anti-social ways or to seek/get the help needed to be a better, higher functioning person. Make the wrong choice and suffer the consequences. Do the crime, do the time. Some, caught dead to rights (on video, multiple eye witnesses) in a violent act such as murder, rape and the like IMO deserve to be put out of their misery. We do that nationwide to good but unwanted pets, so I don't have a problem with taking out violent criminals and dangerous human predators for the good of the many.

Now my confession: I'm moderate with left hand leanings when it comes to the stewardship of our planet, the welfare of animals and small children. I'm also inclined toward libertarianism in food freedom and find the authority of the state (etal) intrusive in regards to material things such as food, building, security, trade, etc. And finally a communitarian in that I believe that we don't exist in a bubble and that each individual action affects others to some degree so the golden rule applies. Finally I believe that there needs to be balance between the immediacy of today and the world that we leave your (I have none) children. So what does that make me in this political landscape?

I think we each are an amalgam of similar complex political, social and ethical beliefs based upon embraced teachings and our experiences in life. The problem lies in extremity (on any side) and intolerance of even slight disagreement. Add to this the orchestrated political sideshows designed to keep us busy and confused and it's no wonder this country is a mess.

FWIW. And that's all I got to say about that...
That was exactly my point a few posts ago. Unfortunately, people won't stop and listen or try to get to know a person deep enough to understand that. For a few folks here it is almost like a checklist: abortion, yes/no? gay marriage, yes/no? tax the rich, yes/no? etc.etc. That kind of rabid exclusion will only bring misery to this country. Look no further, the country is sinking into debt and there is looming default on our heads but hey, when you only have to choose between a or b and both are stuck on it, what the hell, we might as well go bankrupt.
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Old 07-17-2011, 02:00 PM
 
17,815 posts, read 25,574,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCGranny View Post
SC - the same state that aquitted the woman who locked her baby in her car in the summer while she gambled for 6 hours at a video poker place - and then drove almost home before she realized the child was dead. Yeah, it was the video poker place's fault and her addiction to gambling that killed the baby, not her fault at all.

One of my good friends there - a reporter -took a picture of her leaving the courtroom, laughing and smiling with her friends.

Yeah, SC is up to its eyes in liberals, "red state" or no. But there are a LOT of places that are like that; where criminals are never at fault, where decent people "ought to know better" by owning things that they've bought with their own hard-earned money, tempting the poor criminals to rape, robbery, and murder in broad daylight without fear of retribution or incarceration. The OP sounds like she has experiences with some of that.
There are plenty of people(especially in the southeast) who aren't liberal who call everything a "tragic accident".

I have lived all over the country and have never seen anything like it. And these people aren't liberals. They probably don't even vote.

We just had an incident in our area where a 26 yr old mother of three(not married of course and with two different fathers) left an Oxycodene out on her nightstand and her 2 yr old swallowed and the little girl died.

You should hear the comments coming from the rednecks around here.

"it was an accident", "are y'all perfect", "shes a good mother". "you weren't there"...etc.....oh and my favorite "it doesn't matter if she had a prescription or not" (she didn't).

They have no accountability or hold any responsibility for their actions.

None of these people are anything close to liberal.

Same responses when a 16 yr old hit a tree at 2am with two friends in the car driving reckless.

This is the land of "don't judge" and these folks are by no means liberal in their politics.
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