Your top 10 items if SHTF did in fact happen.... (lake, convert, light)

[SCGranny]

Madmaddy, would it be possible for you to have a windmill to pump your water, with a covered catchbasin/tank for storage? or piping to the house? Out here wind power waters thousands of cattle (and some houses in the winter) except in the most frozen weather (and then folks float a solar-powered heater on the tank to keep ice down, or go out and break it off every morning)?

It just seems to me that depending on a fallible generator and gas supply for water would be a little risky in some places... and wind is free.

[madmaddy]

I would love to have a windmill, but the HOA dosn't allow them. We are all on an acre here, and can only have horses and llamas.....no chickens, goats.. they even made the 4H kids get rid of their rabbits. If I could sell this place, I would be gone in a heartbeat!

[madmaddy]

I forgot to mention, we do have several small creeks and two springs within walking distance. Also the small campground a mile from us has a hand pump faucet, tho I believe that would be hi- jacked by unsavories should things get very dire.

[Eastern Roamer]

In order of importance:

1. Water (including something to carry it in, preferably stainless steel and, ideally, means to make it drinkable... which leads me to #2)
2. Fire (three ways to make fire, actually)
3. Shelter (whatever that may be - some paracord, duct tape, & garbage bags would be a good start)
4. Weather-appropriate clothing & boots
5. Blades (a good survival knife, small folding knife, and/or at least a razor blade, though that could fall under #6 it should be seperate since if I could only have one tool it would be a blade)
6. Tools (at least a Gerber/Leatherman type multi-tool)
7. Food (guide to edible plants, means to make a snare, fishing kit, place to find insects & worms, etc... there'd be a lot of stray pets if SHTF )
8. Gun, and some ammo of course (many consider this a tool but, moreover, it's for psychological comfort, athough I could get by without it... like a child and his teddy bear)
9. Someplace to go - a destination or goal, that is... and hope that I might reunite with loved ones there, which leads to #10
10. Companionship

[Mac_Muz]

That 9 is always my problem... I have no where to go, never did, probably never will, but each time in the past the woods, in a remote location has always worked.

Since I hiked modern most of my life and later went primitive I have everything I could want to just pick up a pack and lug it off. The problem there is which one.

Like wise comes guns, which bloomin ones.. Flintlocks or modern? Bot have disadvantages and both have advantages.

Fire I got six ways fro m sunday, but would likely choose prmitivie means, especially if i started with nothing.

My problems are unlike 99%.

The only thing I share is I can't take it all, if I even wanted too.

Oddly I agree I don't need a gun to survive. A gun means you intend to hunt, and you don't need to waste energy hunting. There are far more restfull ways to obatin meat than hunting.

Meat is a luxury and so is plain hunting, which is a waste of time as a gather. Hunting just adds to gathering. So when I did hunt in harsh survival I did it as a luxury and while I was gathering.

A number 1 is the head on your shoulders, and that head better be telling you 'Our' comfort levels will not be what they are now in the SHTF.

[FreedomThroughAnarchism]

Originally Posted by Mac_Muz

There are far more restfull ways to obatin meat than hunting.

Feel free to expand upon that, if you care. Just some things that come off the top of my head on that subject... insofar as what one could due in lieu of hunting.... ways of getting game that might expend less calories:

(1) There's trapping, but most real trappers usually seem to say to 'newbies' who inquire about the subject on forums that:

(a) It is a lot of work to run a whole trapline which could be 10, 20, 50, 100 miles long (depending on what state on lives in).

(b) Game density isn't what it used to be a long time ago as areas often get trapped out (though I suppose animal populations are usually in a perpetual cycle of expansion and decline, and there's a lot of rebound).

(c) Overall some of them say it is more trouble than its worth, and a lot of trappers nowadays admit they do it more for fun, extra cash, if not also to just try to keep the dying tradition alive... and amateur trappers (i.e. survivalists) probably even moreso get a raw deal on this, as their energy expenditure to actual-catch ratio has to be pretty low considering they have no real idea what they are doing compared to a professional trapper.

Whether experienced trappers tell this to newbies just a ruse to discourage fledgling trappers from trying their hand, just so the old timers can keep the spoils to themselves is perhaps debatable.


(2) One could build a simple small-scale subsistence fish wheel. Having seen these things work in videos, it looks like a fabulous effort and calorie expended to reward ratio, but the downside perhaps is that one has to be a very knowledgeable fisherman, and I suppose that fish wheels are probably a very seasonal endeavor. You probably have to catch the fish within a very narrow window of only a few weeks out of the year when they just happen to be seasonally traversing a given river or stream. This makes it great for long-term subsistence, but perhaps less useful in short term survival situation where if you were not lucky enough to have caught that narrow few week window out of the whole year, you might end up catching a whole lot of nothing.


(3) Leaving nets in streams... using yo-yos to catch fish... and other similar absentee fishing techniques..... as with the fish wheel, I suppose it could have a very good reward to energy expenditure ratio.... but in many cases you probably have to be lucky enough to be in the window of opportunity where the fish are at their peak (or otherwise just know a lot about fishing, not just in general, but in that specific area).

[MTSilvertip]

[quote=FreedomThroughAnarchism;20134056]Feel free to expand upon that, if you care. Just some things that come off the top of my head on that subject... insofar as what one could due in lieu of hunting.... ways of getting game that might expend less calories:

(1) There's trapping, but most real trappers usually seem to say to 'newbies' who inquire about the subject on forums that:

quote]

What do you want to know?

I have trapped for nearly 40 years, in fact, all the money I had during High School came from running a trapline in the evenings and weekends during school. I still do some trapping, but my job and family require a more steady paycheck than what I could bring in from a line now.

My line in High School was only about 4 miles long and I could cover 1/2 of it each evening, then run the full line and reset on the weekends. The most labor intensive part was handling the furs. Learning how to skin, stretch, clean and dry your pelts takes a long time and a lot of practice.

My primary targets then were Coyotes and Bobcats. In later years I learned some primitive techniques such as deadfalls, and expanded my target species to include both water based, (Beaver, Muskrat, Otter, Mink, Raccoon) and arborials, (Martins, and for food, squirrels), and my standby terrestrials, coyote, bobcat, fox, badger, skunk, ermine, and for food, rabbit. Birds are tricky, but it can be done.

You have to understand the way a preditor will react vs how a prey species will react to stimuli. Will it be curious? Will it frighten? Will it attack if it thinks there is another animal in it's territory?

I use snares primarilly, light to carry, pretty easy to set, very effective, but have a strong background with leghold traps and some with body grip conibars. I am qualified to teach the Trapper course from the Montana Dept of Fish Wildlife and Parks, I just have to attend one of the annual rendevous put on by the Montana Trappers Association for a teaching test. I haven't done it because of scheduling problems, but I have been approched to do it several times. I just don't know if I can devote the time. Anyway, long story, not important.

Trapping is not an easy thing as you must understand the animals you are targeting. What do they eat? Where do they den? What makes them curious or territorial that will bring them to your set? How do they move? how do they travel and where?

It is more of an art than a skill to understand just where an animal will go, how they will react, and put your set so you will get your set and the animal in the same place at the same time.
Most of the old trappers I know would be happy to share their knowledge with someone genuinely interested, few people have the disipline to do the work required by a trapline. Also, those who have been attacked for trapping become very wary of people who ask, what can I say, we get wary of traps.
Most of us who do it now either target nusience animals causing trouble for someone, or simply for the love of the outdoors, the solitude of the line, working with the animals, the intimate knowledge of the outdoors and the interwoven life, and the heritage of the profession.

Animal numbers do fluctuate in a given area for any number of reasons. Most furbearers are carnivors, and never really thick in a given area, and others like beaver that have very specific requirements for living space can be overtrapped, so a real trapper has to practice good conservation tecniques to keep the population strong within the carrying capacity of your territory.

Anybody can read a book, buy a snare or leghold trap and set, but it takes a lot of time to learn things you can only get by experience, or from a good teacher to understand the almost primeival life you engage in to become a good trapper. Love and respect for the animals you pursue has to be high on the list as you must have reverence for the life you take. That will always be the basic question you have to ask yourself, "Can I take the life of this animal", because that is what you do as a trapper.

It is a rewarding way to live in many ways. Some of my best memories of my teen years are spending the cold winter night out on my trapline in a snow cave. The firelight on the snow from my cooking fire, the aurora borialis lighting the skies in a weird neon dance for my personal pleasure. The way the moonlight makes the snow glow, the ice crystals dancing in the air when the mercury falls below zero. The black/blue sillouettes of the trees, and the stars dancing so close it looks as if you could reach out your hand and pick them like diamonds from a black velvet ceiling.

But probably most, the self reliance of being on your own like that and being completely responsible for running your line in a contientious manner and the product you bring to the fur buyers table being a complete reflection of your skill.

Sorry, took a little trip down memory lane to a better time...

Anyway, what do you want to know about trapping? I would be happy to answer any questions I can.

[Mac_Muz]

MTSilvertips, siad what I would, have but better than I would have. About all he missed was the game targets would be birds and smaller game. Snare wire is cheap compared to heavy traps. A Figure 4 trap is easy to make after you make the first successful one.

Hand made cordage of the right fibers is very strong (ie: basswood bark, aka Linden, cedar bark, yukka, milkweed, and more.) You don't need stainless wire.

Of course while gathering you may come on frogs, not so much toads, and so far I have never trusted eatting toads, and most snakes are just like chicken.

Meat is a luxury.

I agree there is a lot of work to proper care of pelts, but to just eat is another game. In hard times there will be time for luxurys like proper care of pelts too, but not in the first month. That first month is a time for adjustment, getting a rountine set up.

Learning or re-learning the area(s) you chose to be. If the shtf area you chose is long term you will need stored fire wood as just one example, but you don't need it all the first day either.
If you bugged out, you will need water, and again you won't need it all the first day.

I don't know a man who can carry a 55 gallon barrel full of water or a cord of fire wood.

As a kid I trapped muskrats for pelts, as an adult I dabbled in beaver. A decent beaver is meat for a week. But it takes days to prep that meat if you don't have some sort of chiller (refer/ freezer).

In shtf all my targets are small game, and if you get something once in 2 weeks your doing well for meat. If you spend less energy you are saving calories.

I don't know the best place to be, but to me the best place is the one with the most to offer. For me that is the upper parts of the 3 most northern New England States, but that could just be for me. The reason that is , is I am most familar with this area, and could create sugar, salt, smaller game and a lot of plants and tree bark in a years time.

On just foot that would be a lot of work, but it can be done. Salt is free for the taking if you are safe enough to get exposed on the coast a few days. Sugar is too if you can make something to boil off the sap fast enough. Plants are everywhere, so is smaller game.

I don't know if there will be a shtf even, but if there is a good part of my plan is to make the things I need/some wants, as I go. I sure can't carry it all at once.

[SCGranny]

MTSilvertip, maybe you should start a new thread on trapping in the Self-sufficiency forum. You'd probably get a good response! I am curious about it, always have been, but not until recently moving West have I seen so many trappers and so many pelts. There is a guy who comes out here twice a year and buys pelts... I am fascinated by what I see and hear but don't know anything about it.

[Mac_Muz]

SCG, Here and in Vt and Maine trappers do well in foxes, red gray and silver, beaver, some yottes, limited wild ermine and mink. Here I am too far north for Muskrats. As a wee lad in Pa I did that living with an aunt, while my mother was having her first breakdown. I was 5 years old then and was succesfull. If a 5 year old can trap, anyone can, but there is a few lessons you need to know. I had a cousin just a bit older than me and he knew, and it was his older brother who taught him.

Their Dad was a rifleman of the finest kind, having a active collection pre-dating the rev war, and for grins he was a real gunsmith with a full shop, just as a hobby. That Uncle's, Guns Collection numbered in the thousands.
The best fur trapper I know lives alone, unless you count his mule in Vt. He is full blown French Canadian, and probably the most fit woodsman I have ever know. I don't hold a candle to what's in that geezers head. Or maybe I just can't understand a bloomin thing he says...

One time his mule didn't see things eye to eye and beat the tar outta' that guy. The jist of that argument was about matching curtains. LOL