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The Norwegian youth counselor who played dead to survive the Oslo shooting rampage is a lesson in doing the right thing:
Adrian Pracon, a 21-year-old official with the Worker's Youth League described on Saturday, how he played dead and survived the shooting on Youth camp on an island near Oslo. The gunman pretended to be a police officer and was on a shooting spree.
...Pracon told Aftenposten "I lay on the ground and played dead. He came up to check that everyone was dead. He was so close that I felt the warmth of his weapon."
The last shot grazed Pracon's shoulder, the sound of which temporarily deafened him.
This young man showed an amazing PRESENCE OF MIND in such a terrifying situation. Here's some other tips and tricks from the article on how to be prepared for such a horrible event:
1. Report to authorities when suspicious
2. Seek for a strong cover
3. Call 911
4. Help yourself first
5. Don't scream "HELP!"
6. Trick the killer
7. Play dead
8. Attack him before he attacks you
Norway has strict gun control laws. The laws don't mean much to criminals, only law abiding citizens.
Cheap guns can be life savers. In Texas criminals assume law abiding citizens may be armed and not always easy victims.
But still there are alot of homicides with reasonable carry and use laws.
The larger danger is common criminals rather then mass shootings.
And more danger for women in Pervs then a mass shootings. Check some of the stats around the Texas Mexico border. But not before a good meal, because the stats will make you sick.
Old people are murdered all too often. Simple crime is out of control and the weak are often sought out by sub human predators who are shrewd like and animal or reptile. Old people who live along are targeted.
Young people are often targeted by gang and wannabees.
I in no way blame the young victims of this Norwegians's murder spree. However, I have wondered many times how many more may have been saved had a large group assembled together and attacked him from all directions. No doubt some would have been shot/killed in the process but possibly many fewer than were killed by assuming the fetal position or running away.
It appears the only sheepdogs where those neighbors who got in their boats during the attack and risked their lives to save those attempting to escape.
Mindset is the first and most important tool in facing a lethal threat, be it two legged, four legged, man-made, or from mother nature.
Norway has strict gun control laws. The laws don't mean much to criminals, only law abiding citizens.
Cheap guns can be life savers. In Texas criminals assume law abiding citizens may be armed and not always easy victims.
But still there are alot of homicides with reasonable carry and use laws.
The larger danger is common criminals rather then mass shootings.
And more danger for women in Pervs then a mass shootings. Check some of the stats around the Texas Mexico border. But not before a good meal, because the stats will make you sick.
Old people are murdered all too often. Simple crime is out of control and the weak are often sought out by sub human predators who are shrewd like and animal or reptile. Old people who live along are targeted.
Young people are often targeted by gang and wannabees.
Yet Norway, with it's strict gun control has a much lower gun kills rate, per capita than TX and most, if not all other states in the US.
You can't prepare for situations like this, at least not in an open, free society with minimal government interference, it's a price one has to acknowledge sometimes will be paid.
Norway's gun laws work perfectly well, if anything the only thing one has heard in the aftermath is some people criticizing that you can buy semi automatic rifles legally.
Oh... and the gun per person ratio in Norway is higher than the US, only difference is that it's primarily hunting rifles and shotguns and you can't carry them.
At the end of the day, far more people are killed on the I-10 than by a Mac-10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal
I in no way blame the young victims of this Norwegians's murder spree. However, I have wondered many times how many more may have been saved had a large group assembled together and attacked him from all directions. No doubt some would have been shot/killed in the process but possibly many fewer than were killed by assuming the fetal position or running away.
It appears the only sheepdogs where those neighbors who got in their boats during the attack and risked their lives to save those attempting to escape.
Mindset is the first and most important tool in facing a lethal threat, be it two legged, four legged, man-made, or from mother nature.
Many more would've survived without attacking the assailant if he wasn't dressed as a police officer and there wasn't confusion about who the shooter was. The biggest number of victims were shot as he told them he'd lead them to safety, with 30+1 in the rifle and 16+1 in the gun, there's little they could do to prevent what happened.
There was a very moving story though, posted in the press, where an 11 year old boy faced the gunman and said "Stop it! You've shot enough people now, you killed my father, don't kill me too. Leave us alone!" He left the island without a mark.
It looks to me like (and this is JMHO) the "preparedness mindset" would be - Trust no one, trust no place, to protect or save you.
I've said it forever, but since 9/11, I've said it a lot more. No one - especially those whose jobs include being paid to save or protect you - can save or protect you. I don't hate cops per se; one of my BF's is a police chief, and we are very close, and I have a lot of cop friends. But I've known cops that were, to put it gently, completely insane - who joined LE solely to intimidate, harass, and have power over others. Same with some military men. Those who were/are raised to believe that a man in uniform is always faithful, honest, true, protective, and safe set themselves up for disaster.
It's the same with 'safe' places. There are none. Not here, not where you are, not anywhere. Some places are "safe -ER" than others; but no matter how much security, how many guns, how many uniformed or non-uniformed people there are - there are no truly safe places.
One day while working in DC right after 9/11, every building I went into or passed by had the big cement blockades and armed soldiers standing about. I had gone into the congressional cafeteria for lunch, and afterwards I wanted a smoke. So I went thru the underground garage and went outside. I stood out there and smoked and walked with the passerby on the sidewalk, watching the Guardsmen standing around, bored, as I walked back and forth, sometimes in their sight, sometimes ignored by them. Legitimately I was supposed to go all the way around to the front of the building to go in... but instead I walked up to the guard and asked if I could just go back in the way I'd come. "Sure" he said, shrugging. Now what if... what if one of the passerby had slipped a bomb into my overly large purse, and I went into the garage and detonated it? It is very easy to subvert security - if you know how. Like pedophiles, con men, and other experienced criminals, one can appear to be completely harmless and 'nice' - and have the heart of a killer.
Now, of course I don't care enough about anyone or anything to blow myself or anyone/anything else up, or to threaten anyone else's life for any reason other than that they are immediately threatening me or mine. But trusting your safety to a TSA agent, a cement barrier, a military man or security guard, or even someone who is in uniform, or who is dressed nicely and who looks inoffensive and harmless, is not a guarantee of safety.
It looks to me like (and this is JMHO) the "preparedness mindset" would be - Trust no one, trust no place, to protect or save you.
I've said it forever, but since 9/11, I've said it a lot more. No one - especially those whose jobs include being paid to save or protect you - can save or protect you. I don't hate cops per se; one of my BF's is a police chief, and we are very close, and I have a lot of cop friends. But I've known cops that were, to put it gently, completely insane - who joined LE solely to intimidate, harass, and have power over others. Same with some military men. Those who were/are raised to believe that a man in uniform is always faithful, honest, true, protective, and safe set themselves up for disaster.
It's the same with 'safe' places. There are none. Not here, not where you are, not anywhere. Some places are "safe -ER" than others; but no matter how much security, how many guns, how many uniformed or non-uniformed people there are - there are no truly safe places.
One day while working in DC right after 9/11, every building I went into or passed by had the big cement blockades and armed soldiers standing about. I had gone into the congressional cafeteria for lunch, and afterwards I wanted a smoke. So I went thru the underground garage and went outside. I stood out there and smoked and walked with the passerby on the sidewalk, watching the Guardsmen standing around, bored, as I walked back and forth, sometimes in their sight, sometimes ignored by them. Legitimately I was supposed to go all the way around to the front of the building to go in... but instead I walked up to the guard and asked if I could just go back in the way I'd come. "Sure" he said, shrugging. Now what if... what if one of the passerby had slipped a bomb into my overly large purse, and I went into the garage and detonated it? It is very easy to subvert security - if you know how. Like pedophiles, con men, and other experienced criminals, one can appear to be completely harmless and 'nice' - and have the heart of a killer.
Now, of course I don't care enough about anyone or anything to blow myself or anyone/anything else up, or to threaten anyone else's life for any reason other than that they are immediately threatening me or mine. But trusting your safety to a TSA agent, a cement barrier, a military man or security guard, or even someone who is in uniform, or who is dressed nicely and who looks inoffensive and harmless, is not a guarantee of safety.
People need to get passed this idea of complete safety, it doesn't exist and it never will.
People need to realize that even pretzels pose a greater danger to your life than other people and terrorists are the least of the worries, in 2001, you were almost 3 times as big of a threat to yourself (suicide) than some bearded man with a plane.
Security should never be measured by how secure we are because of the measures taken, but by the trade off, what are we giving up for this added security, and is it worth it?
Considering how much money is spent everyday in the "war against terror" and the current state of the economy, you have to ask yourself how effective it has been and more importantly, has it been worth it?
At the end though it's important to mention that the police here and the police in Norway are two different things. You actually really have to want to become a cop to be one in Norway. You need to be a good student, the Police academy is a 3 year Bachelor degree (just to become a patrolman), there are strict physical requirements as well as numerous ethical evaluations and psych evals.
That's not to say there aren't dicks in the Norwegian police force too, but they might not be quite as prevalent, and it's in no way abnormal to trust a man in uniform like these kids did, which is another good point, they were kids. Most of the dead are between 14 and 17 years old.
Yet Norway, with it's strict gun control has a much lower gun kills rate, per capita than TX and most, if not all other states in the US.
You can't prepare for situations like this, at least not in an open, free society with minimal government interference, it's a price one has to acknowledge sometimes will be paid.
Norway's gun laws work perfectly well, if anything the only thing one has heard in the aftermath is some people criticizing that you can buy semi automatic rifles legally.
Oh... and the gun per person ratio in Norway is higher than the US, only difference is that it's primarily hunting rifles and shotguns and you can't carry them.
At the end of the day, far more people are killed on the I-10 than by a Mac-10
Many more would've survived without attacking the assailant if he wasn't dressed as a police officer and there wasn't confusion about who the shooter was. The biggest number of victims were shot as he told them he'd lead them to safety, with 30+1 in the rifle and 16+1 in the gun, there's little they could do to prevent what happened.
There was a very moving story though, posted in the press, where an 11 year old boy faced the gunman and said "Stop it! You've shot enough people now, you killed my father, don't kill me too. Leave us alone!" He left the island without a mark.
Thank you for sharing that story. It would seem that in at least one instance confrontation did save one or more lives.
I am aware of the mass murderer's use of disguise to lure his victims closer. Furthermore, those who did recognize what was happening and "froze" to play dead were executed in their attempt to avoid confrontation and become invisible through inaction. I still disagree that magazine capacity had anything to do with the ability to successfully confront and stop the attacks. Perhaps that skepticism comes from my own training in a society free enough to allow me the RKBA as well as train as an average citizen.
I believe there is a way to protect children (and adults alike) in a free society as well as enabling with the psychological tools and physical methods to help them protect themselves. Respectfully, YMMV.
Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 07-31-2011 at 01:57 PM..
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Mass Shootings
