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at 200, 300, 400 500 yds, assuming you CAN get hits on such a mark at 500tyds,that is. :-) At whatever range you need 1 second or more between hits, you can't reliably hit a dodging man. In basic training in the Army, you are taught to dodge every other step as you charge, to go prone and roll every 3-4 seconds, if you can't make it to cover, that is. This is to make a belt fed machinegunner, miss enough of you, often enough, that some of you will kill that gunner. It also makes the riflemen scared and miss you enough to run out of ammo in a big hurry. You will NOT hit such charging, dodging, cover using, head on prone men beyond 200 yds, with over 50% of your shots (less is LUCK when you do hit, see that?) regardless of who is firing, what gun, scope, load, etc, is used.
So much for the "long range" shooting bs. That only works ONCE, then everyone starts dodging, diving for cover, etc, and looking to locate/kill you. Men only present the sort of stationary, fully erect, fully exposed target (which makes it possible to hit him at 500+ yds) if they are UNAWARE of danger in that area/time. Any group looking to just rush/overwhelm your defenses will at least use darkness, perhaps smoke, dustclouds, etc to cover their advances. Stop assuming that your attackers will be stupid, guys. The stupid ones will be dead within 1 month of shtf's beginning. If they have survived a month as looters, they will know how to reduce the risks of overwhelming you. It only takes ONE who knows how to teach 100 others, you know. He will do so to become the head man of such a group, get first pick of the women, etc, when they succeed.
From the kneeling, sitting, or prone positions and with a semi auto, I can accurately hit 30 out of 30 from 500 yards in about 30 – 35 seconds, and keep them on a 9 – 10 inch circle. That’s with a run of the mill semi auto, no tuning, and I’m in a hurry. With the bolt action Savage Arms model 10 Precision Carbine, I can get off about 20 rounds a minute, and the fire’s much more accurate. That thing shoots sub MOA at all ranges, so groups under 3 inches aren’t uncommon.
Off hand with out the use of any supporting device, I’m good out to about 300 yards on dog targets. I’ll hit it every time, but the ROF will be about 75% of the aforementioned.
That’s nothing impressive either. I’ve seen plenty that can out shoot me, are better at leading moving targets, guessing windage, etc. It’s beyond the average person, and this I know.
I agree that if things get that bad, the entire country goes lawless, and it’s pandemonium in the streets, those that are hold up will be victims sooner or later. About a month after this type of scenario, the looters/lawless organized mobs that will be left are most certainly going to be deadly to all that cross their paths. Not to mention that first month and desperate ordinary people.
That’s why I plan to bug out with two other like-minded people if that sort of scenario should occur. We can abscond into the state game lands and disappear into thousands of acres of the forests that have either never been lived in or no homes have existed since the 1800s.
After that, it’s sit, wait, and plan on how we’d reassimilate into some sort of well-prepared community that doesn’t push religion or other strange rules. I’m also hoping to run into other survivalists while encamped in the mountains. There are three of us now.
I hope it never comes to that. I’m sure I can survive all four seasons in my state, but it’s the idea of living like a mountain man for a year or more that seems to get me down. I’d want to return to some sort of community and have more social interaction than the two men I’m heading out with.
I must admit that I’m a bit uncertain as to what the gist of your post is. It’s not clear and quite ambiguous. Can you restate your original purpose?
I spent enough time at NRA Hi Power matches to realize that past the first couple of shots I am no threat to anyone out past 20 yards with an M-1 or M-14. Not so with an M-2. Or with a .45 colt pistol under 20 yds.
BTW - what reality did this "giney12" guy come from anyway?
I spent enough time at NRA Hi Power matches to realize that past the first couple of shots I am no threat to anyone out past 20 yards with an M-1 or M-14. Not so with an M-2. Or with a .45 colt pistol under 20 yds.
BTW - what reality did this "giney12" guy come from anyway?
No reality. Self Defence doesn't take place at 200 yards to 500 yards, they call that War. He's just the latest troll.
Don't go nutso on him my friend Missing, the mod, had to slap my wrist
the guy who claims 1 second repeat hits, on a 10" circle, at 500 yds, especially from the kneel, is simply a LIAR, plain and simple. Itcan't be done, by anyone, with any type of rifle.
the guy who claims 1 second repeat hits, on a 10" circle, at 500 yds, especially from the kneel, is simply a LIAR, plain and simple. Itcan't be done, by anyone, with any type of rifle.
My kneeling position is so low, that I might as well be sitting. My sitting position is so low that my elbows are nearly touching the ground. The shooting abilities that I'ev described are not a very impressive. That’s 2 inches per 100 yards out of a AR15A2 without a magazine change, firing custom tailored hand loads, and 68 grain BTHP mach bullets. I said it took about 30 – 35 seconds, maybe it’s 40 – 45, I’ve never timed it, all I know is that it only takes about a second from the time the rifle’s fired until it’s back into battery. I’ve been to school to learn how to shoot, I’ve shot all my life, so I am using a shooting sling, I’m holding the rifle properly, and my body’s positioned to take the full force of the recoil with minimal movement of my body. Additionally, I know how to keep a proper cheek weld. Once the rifle’s fired, it naturally comes back into battery and is already lined up on the target, so I rarely need to readjust my point of aim. When shooting slow fire any distance with the very same AR15A2 from the prone position, that rifle shot sub moa groups, period! It was a very accurate rifle.
I guess that you won’t believe me if I tell you that I regularly scored 10 out of 10 in a 6 – 9 inch circle shooting rapid fire at 200 and 300 yards off hand, and I fired off a round every second and a half I’d guess.
And again let me restate, I may be a rifle expert with abilities well above average, but experts and trick shots make me look like a rank novice. I know how to shoot, and I only shoot my hand loads. After more than 30 years of hand loading experience, I’ve learned a couple of the basics to tailor ammunition for a specific firearm.
With my Springfield Armory M1A1 (M14), I shot a whole lot better. For whatever reason, that rifle was deadly accurate right out of the box.
By the way, this is with iron sights. I am not a huge fan of optics on anything other than bolt-action rifles. Like I’ve said earlier, that’s rushing the 30 round strings. I’m not taking my time. I may have a occasional flyer because I goofed, but I know it’s going to be one as the rifle’s firing, and it only happens on occasion.
I can fire 20 deadly accurate rounds per minute out to 600 yards with a flipping bolt action. Give me a bunch of magazines and an M14/M16, and I’ll take you up on your challenge. You charge me from a field that’s 1,000 yards long, and we’ll see how many cartwheels you can get off.
I'm sorry for posting twice in a row, but I couldn't edit the previous one, and that's problem with banging posts off the cuff without proofreading them is that I make a lot of mistakes.
During the rapid fire string at 200 yards, I got 10 rounds off at the able target in about 20 seconds, and the group was about 6 – 9 inches, and at 300 yards, about the same time, but the group was 9 – 12 inches off hand.
In the kneeling, sitting, and prone positions, with the use of a shooting sling, the rifle had to be forced into my shoulder, so when I aimed at the target, it was like the rifle was cemented onto me. I really don’t know how to explain it. Training, practice, and the proper equipment will definitely help mediocre and up shooters.
I routinely shot middle 230s out of 250 at the range. That’s enough to qualify me as a rifle expert in the Marine Corps, but it’s not something to brag about.
After the Corps, my life long childhood friend, who also went into the Corps, gave me a lot of personal training. He shot for the Marine Corps, Army, and some National Guard/Reservist units. He always shot pistol in competitions, but he dabbled in rifles and action shooting among other things. His teaching vastly improved what I’d picked up in the Corps.
After a quick google search, I turned up numerous hits for his name. For example,
USAMU's Staff Sgt. Carl W. Trompeter II tied for the win the 25-Meter Military Rapid Fire Pistol Match and ended up with the Silver Medal after the shoot-off.
If you click on the link, he’s the third from the left in the back row. He’s the tall one with dirty blond hair. I benefit greatly from having him as a person instructor for several years.
Selections for CISM Shooting Team (http://armedforcessports.defense.gov/sho01b.html - broken link)
I make errors in my posts because I simply bang them out. I later think about what I wrote, come back to change it, but I can’t edit it. I’m guilty of not properly proofreading my posts, so I make errors, and I’m guilty of a lot of assumptions. Meaning, I write something, and in my mind, I’m assuming that you’re reading my thoughts, so I don’t properly express my ideas.
I can assure you that I shoot quite well. I am not a professional. I don’t think I could ever be one. When shooting against Carl, I can probably squeak off 80 - 85%% of what he can do. The differences between us are obvious because he's a world class shooter. One of the top in the United States. I’m no world class shooter, and I’ve never claimed to be one.
This topic was time your hits on a 12” by 24” target at various ranges up to and including 500 yards. Then it was somehow implied that it’s impossible and the rusher has the advantage. It’s my contention that I can deliver accurate fire out to 500 yards on targets. I don’t care if they’re moving, I’ll hit it sooner or later. Moreover the runner’s going to tire at some point. Running 500 yards while ducking, dodging, jumping on the ground, rolling, and getting back up, it’s obvious to me that I’ll dispatch that runner in short order.
I actually agreed with the latter part of the second paragraph. Homesteaders in a lawless land full of people looking to plunder will obviously be organized and attack when they have the advantage, which will be nearly all the time due to the simple reason that the homesteaders will get complacent if there aren’t daily attacks, and said homesteaders never know when or where the threats going to come.
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