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I have been hearing these scenarios (and watching people plan for them) since the 1950's. I know of at least two hidden "fallout shelters" on Long Island. I went through grammar school enduring endless duck and cover drills, which were simply absurd. I would rather live my life to the fullest without this dark cloud that seems to threaten so many people's emotional well-being than worry over the endless possibilities. Really, that kind of emotional turmoil will kill you faster than any marauders roaming the countryside in some imagined catastrophe that might happen. And who wants to be one of the few survivors of a true Armageddon?
Jenny,
I apologize for the rude and ignorant responses that you have received to your original post. Although I do not understand what the thread title that you have written means, (TEOTWAWKI....SHTF?), there's no excuse for others to react in the manner that they have.
It happens here, on City-Data - but fortunately not as often as it might on the majority of websites.(I think? )
Try to just chalk it up to stupidity on their part.
~rainroosty~
I recall those drills vividly....wow, how weird that was!
I found your post to be quite intelligent.
Last edited by PJSaturn; 03-23-2012 at 07:13 AM..
Reason: Made a correction for user.
Now, I am not a prepper or a survivalist or a militia man, or a doomsdayer, or (insert latest phrase here). But I have taken my friends advice to heart. besides the end of world scenerio, there are huindreds of more likely local to regional to country scenerios that may make you want to think about the basics. My friend said that the odds are that at somepoint in your life an event will occur that forces you to scramble for everyday living. It could be a tronado, a wildfire, a hurricane, a tusnami. Even a derailedtrain with toxic chemicalss can distrupt some basic everyday function.
I once worked for the American Red Cross and learned how to pack a car trunk for emergencies. My DP and kids and friends think I'm nuts, but WHY? Since moving back to New England from tornado alley (where I only saw a tornado twice in seven years), I've experienced not one but two tornadoes that ripped through my town here putting out power for days and bringing down massive trees all around my house, along with power lines. In my last house I was trapped in my house for two days, as they couldn't get the trees and wires off the ground and in one spot. the downed wires in the dried leaves caused a low running fire they couldn't put out very fast. It could have caused a full out evacuation.
After the Halloween Surprise Knockout Snowstorm back in October, I really got serious about being prepared. We were without power for a week here. The gas pumps are run by electricity....NONE were in operation for 20 miles around. The one pump we found had lines a mile and more long, bumper to bumper, people panicking and desperate. We went into darkened supermarkets where we used flashlights to go through the aisles and the shelves were bare of bread, dog food, and a lot of other basics. People were in slight panic mode. You could not get a generator ANYWHERE. And where to get the gas to run it?
I can't even imagine what a major catastrophe like war attack, nuclear meltdown, etc would cause. People will flip out, and forget neighborliness and kindness. It's everyone for himself.
So my car trunk is packed with tent for two, sleeping bags, tarps, rope, bungee cords, small axe, first aid kit, collapsible water carrier, trash bags, clothes for a week, down jackets, containers, matches in tin cans, nonbattery windup flashlights (addicted to these), head lamps, etc etc. I have all documents in a pickup and go safe (with cash in it), and an evacuation plan (more or less).
The one thing I'm not so great on is what kind of food to have for emergencies. I'm certainly not going to bring my canning and heavy stuff. I do have a volcano stove that uses wood, sticks, coal. It's not exactly lightweight but could fit in my car. I'm an expert on cooking grains and would bring some quinoa and other grains that cook very fast.
I'd like suggestions on what to keep in my car (dehydrated) that might last 2 or 3 people for a week to a month, that would not go bad in the trunk in hot weather. Ideas and brands appreciated.
Being ready to evacuate is of utmost importance if one lives near a highway (chem spill), nuclear power plant, any body of water that can flood, any area even remotely prone to tornado (who would have thunk tornado where I am?) or hurricane, or society breakdown (for which we would see signs coming I hope). Having lived through the Missouri/Mississippi River floods in the 90s was also a wakeup call.
I realized that my retirement check may not come in the future (just like social security, disability, military pay and others) due to the debt load and new priorities.
Besides these, all it takes is terrorist attack on our electronic communications and banking system, and all those direct deposits with SS monies, etc will be instantaneously knocked out. I was told by my bank the other day that SS is requiring everyone receiving from them to sign up for direct deposit. IMO, that is another disaster in the making. Much easier to claim "system breakdown" than "sorry folks, out of money."
I don't think the OP was criticizing, I think she was wondering aloud. It's easy to think only "Armageddon" around the idea of prepping, but as my previous two posts and many others state, there are so many scenarios in this scary and unstable world we live in today. Let's not even imagine Iran or meteors striking. We have enough natural disasters on enormous scale to warrant being prepared. Anyway, CD creates forums (as in, everyone has a say), not clubs, so all points of view can be rationally and politely addressed.
I don't think the OP was criticizing, I think she was wondering aloud.
and that is probably the biggest issue whenever this general topic is discussed and why I have hesitated to post. My version of prepping is wildy different from others and I have seen attacks on those who do not embrace certain philosophies about the future and I have seen honest questions of curiosity or confusion be met with attacks simply because that person didn;t understand what was being discussed.
The underlying issue is that there is no way to discuss this issue because you have those from one extreme to another and its that extrimist views that makes discussion near impossible on an intelligent level. And, I;ll call it like I see it, there are many who come off as just role playing so they have their macho hobby. Odds are they will be the first to get whacked if the SHTF cause its not real to them but a game of how extrement one can get. Other see the evil governement behind every thing that is happening and when the SHTF they will perish cause they are ready to fight governemnt but a natural disaster is not givernement so they just sit there and watchg the end come knocking on their door. Of course we can;t forget those who have every convceivabe weapon in their arsenal with ammunition to supply the chinnese army, but they have food and water for only 1 week. They will likely perish cause their entire preparing is based on how many guns they have to defend their 1 week supply of food & water. And uou have the through money at ti and all is good. Some of thse were featyured on TV shows and despite all they did and spent, their plans are doomed to fail because they are not serious about the technical aspects only the Prepper Shopping Network version.
So how do the techno-ops discuss preparing if they are seen as unprepared by the militia prepers and challenged on that? How do the militia prepers discuss prepping if survivlist keep challenging them cause they don;t know how to prepare roadkill with a match and lip balm? How does the survivlist discuss preparing when the conspiracites challenging them cause they don't think governemrn is behind everything? Everyone vision is based on theri belief of what is correct so everything will become some argument and take on the tones of political or religious discussion.
As a techno-op prepper, I;m often viewed as not being preparred because everything I do and prepare for is based on using a calculated criteria of risk reduction. This often means we don;t do what may other do because it does not enhance a person's chance or survival so we are seen as lacking (although I personally belive it focuses us on survival and not the hype of survival)
Yes, just like right now hundreds of thousands in Mexico have no fresh water because of an earthquake. We in the USA may be on the spoiled side, used to having everything but that can change, we're not immune.
Do you also have a crystal ball that will give you sufficient advance warning to get to the shelter before a 750 kt warhead detonates?
Countries don't give warning prior to attack. Warnings are not part of Russian or Chinese military doctrine (but surprise and speed is -- same is true for Israel).
And what fallout?
What moron would detonate a perfectly good 750 kt warhead below 30 miles?
The function and purpose of strategic nuclear weapons is to kill/injure as many people as possible, and cause destruction and damage on the largest scale possible.
So, again, what moron would detonate a 750 kt warhead at 5,000 feet in a city like Chicago? Okay, so it kills 200,000 people. Big deal. Detonate at 30 miles and you'll nail about 8 Million people.
It's spherical geometry. I guess they don't require that in school any more. Anyway, unless you have prior knowledge of the attack and can take adequate shelter in time, this is what 4 psi over-pressure will do to your chest and abdomen:
That little white blob is all of your jellied organs (which are no longer functioning by the way -- sucks to be that).
And what fallout? I guess they don't teach Earth Sciences anymore in school. The Stratosphere starts at about 11 miles. A 750 kt warhead will have a 30 kt plutonium trigger, and that is the only thing that will produce fallout, which will be moving at 80 mph - 200+ mph in the Stratosphere and be well dispersed so as to pose no problems when it finally starts hitting ground about 80 hours later a few thousand miles downwind (and you calculate and plot based on 30 kt and not 750 kt like the Federation of Ass-Clown Scientists would do).
And you cannot do both? Why not? I live life to the fullest and I already have a plan. It isn't like people are scheming 24/7 like some ass-munch internet gamer plays World of Warcraft or something.
I occasionally pick up a few pointers now and again, like monitoring wells. It took me like 30 seconds to incorporate that into a plan.
What emotional turmoil?
Imagined catastrophe? Like the 1859 Carrington Event? That is not imagination, it actually happened, and it is guaranteed to happen again, quite possibly in the life-times of people posting now on this forum.
About 30 miles south of Winslow, Arizona is Meteor Crater.
This is North Carolina:
That happened 11,000 years ago. Asteroid broke up hit Canada, the US, southern Africa and Antarctica near the Ross Sea where the western ice sheet sits. Caused a global tsunami which is retold in myths world-wide as "the Flood."
Ended the Ice Age and started the present Inter-Glacial Period. It also killed off all of the mastodons, wooly mammoths, giant bears, giant sloths and saber tooth tigers (and a few others).
That will happen again, too, guaranteed. The only question is "When?" (not "If").
I do.
I have great genes. A little seeding action would strength the gene pool tremendously.
You're exactly the kind of person we don't want around, and lucky for us people like you won't last long anyone.
Maybe we'll engrave all of your names on a plaque to memorialize your sacrificial stupidity (once we can get bronze smelting going again) and stick it next to the loo or something.
Surviving...
Mircea
Ugh ! Redundancy at it's best. Good God, ****...and get over yourself !!
The one thing I'm not so great on is what kind of food to have for emergencies. I'm certainly not going to bring my canning and heavy stuff. I do have a volcano stove that uses wood, sticks, coal. It's not exactly lightweight but could fit in my car. I'm an expert on cooking grains and would bring some quinoa and other grains that cook very fast.
I'd like suggestions on what to keep in my car (dehydrated) that might last 2 or 3 people for a week to a month, that would not go bad in the trunk in hot weather. Ideas and brands appreciated.
Honestly, NEG, I can't think of ANY food that will not spoil in the heat of a trunk or car. Even jerky gets soft and icky after a few weeks in a car "oven". Even when we went summer camping for a week, I had everything in an iced-down cooler, strapped to the outside of the vehicle, for airflow. (In 100-degree heat on the outside, everything stayed frozen - without re-icing.) Dried things like Jiffy mix for campfire baking were also kept in a canvas bag outside the vehicle (we hung it on a tent pole once we settled.) Can you possibly put together a canvas bug-out bag of dehydrated/camping/MRE food that you can grab up as you go out the door? Or that can be (sealed from bugs and mice) stored in a cool garage next to the vehicle?
If the heat in a closed car in the middle of summer can kill a baby or a dog in 15 minutes, or completely melt the old video tapes in two hours, it can't do any food you pack in your trunk any good. It will suffer a "sea change" and NOT into something "rich and strange".
Since I'm a "Bug-in" er, not a "Bug-out" er, I have everything set up to stay put, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. But I thought your question needed to be pointed out - it's important.
Last edited by SCGranny; 03-23-2012 at 06:19 AM..
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