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.Holy monks warned God's Tsar that the antichrist would arise.
What was the year ?
1492
Same year Columbus "discovered" the New World.
And the Millerites (from whom today's Seventh Day Adventists came) predicted it would be October 22, 1844... What's your point?
Or was that it? That there have been countless days that have been predicted as "our last one" since the dawn of time...
And the Millerites (from whom today's Seventh Day Adventists came) predicted it would be October 22, 1844... What's your point?
Or was that it? That there have been countless days that have been predicted as "our last one" since the dawn of time...
May we not have our favorite dooms day prophets? I am a big fan of Adso of Montier-en-Der.
People always toss out the Roman Empire as the example of apocalyptic collapses and don't ever say anything about the Byzantine Empire. Why is that?
My argument would be that complete societal collapse would only happen with a large, global scale event. Or something that would collapse all first world nations. Because the collapse of the Roman Empire wouldn't happen today (and that's assuming we go with the theory that she collapsed, which is debatable, btw).
The Byzantine Empire continued on after Rome "collapsed." (In quotes because the Byzantine Empire was the Roman Empire, just as Rome was, at the time) The inter-connectedness of today's world would mean that the eastern half would prop up the western half for some time, because it was a very valuable region.
I was speaking of Western Rome, which was a place with very different dynamics than the east.
From the start, the western and eastern sides of Rome were different. The west grew among barbarian tribes and away from more advanced influences. Deep down, Rome lived or died on its military might. As long as it was expanding, it had sources of all it needed and the will to keep going. When most of the Roman forces were not Roman, and the First Legion was wiped out in the Forest by Germanic tribes and they stopped, it was the real beginning of the end.
In the east, they were near trade routes which did not require many more months of transport. The local influence was different and older and more varied. The Eastern Empire didn't need to keep getting bigger to survive since it had many other options.
What Western Rome did was rot from the inside out. Largely the budget had come from taking new places, and taxation spiraled out of reach to make up for it. They relied on the arena and outside trappings of power to hold the people, while inside it broke down. It was not lost nor did it ever crumble quickly. But they pulled back, bit by bit. Between bad leadership by emperiors who were more interested in their own pleasures and gain, and a culture of theater, and immense corruption in the middle, their society crumbled, but so slowly it was hard to see.
After the easter half had gained its own identity and the cost of propping up the west was not worth it, it was picked apart at first by multiple invasions, then simply came apart. I don't think in this world, when the point came where it would cost the East so much of what kept them strong, that they'd consider the west as it was turning to anarchy as a worthwhile risk. Basically the not Bysantine Empire did not NEED the west, but needed to remain strong in themselves. At that point they were two different societies.
Western Rome stumbled on for some time, as its actual control dwindled, and the infrastructure began to malfunction. Disease also played a part, hitting both the east and west. Its likely that the 1300's wasn't the first time the plague had come across the steepes. But the final, agressive incursions of Viking and the 'uncivilized' tribes simply broke what was left down very quickly. At the end the remnants had a quick, terrible death, leaving no structure behind for the survivors to cling to.
The medieval age was truely a 'starting over' since there was nothing left but knowledge which wouldn't be read again for centuries.
Today, the interconnections are strong, and one large nation collapsing would likely take others with it. This was the most fascinating part of the world created in the TV show Jericho, what about the rest of the world? How devistating was it to them? But thats a sudden collapse. The more likely is a slow winding down, slipping quality of life, and its inevitalbe acceptance which makes it hard to see, and the final 'fall' something maybe inconcequental. Meanwhile the rest of the world moves on, exploiting the now powerless as they once exploited.
This does not include the very real possibility of epidmic and plague. Part of Rome's fall were the early versions which came from the east as they effected trade, and had a major psychological effect. Today it would be quick and catastrophich and in a few days could easily rewrite the dynamics of nations and peoples and everyday life for a long time.
For some reason people think that United States is special as a "world power". Rome was the same, so was England, so were many others. The thing is though, with the amount of guns around, it will not be a happy ending when it does come.
As for people calling others to arms and generally being concerned about the powers of our government, what baffles me is that these same folks are completely oblivious to the fact that corporations and wealthy CEOs are the ones who run this country by virtue of money, the lobbying system we have and by virtue of connections. These same people have a hate for the government but when you say something about the corporate power you get attacked as being anti-capitalist and you get labeled as communist...
In my mind, the evil that will bring down this country is corporations. The government, Senate, Congress, they are just tools. The Constitution went to great lengths to protect the people from their government but NOT from wealthy private interests owning and running the government. In that respect, we are actually less protected than most other Western "democracies".
OD
We, not just the US, are already under corporate contol. In 'rich' nations they manipulate the politics. In 'poor' ones they are more direct about it. That is what 'globalization' is all about. And as the economies of the 'rich' world drop since the corporate faction can control incomes, it will all slowly evolve to the least needed to get people to behave.
We're drifiting our way back to feudalism without even a whimper.
What Western Rome did was rot from the inside out.
That's one of a dozen theories, btw.
Quote:
Basically the not Bysantine Empire did not NEED the west, but needed to remain strong in themselves. At that point they were two different societies.
This was my point. Then and now are two very different times. Then, segments of the same civilization could operate independently. Which of course is why the collapse of the Roman Empire wasn't really the collapse of the Roman Empire. Merely the collapse of the western half.
Now, for good or for bad, nations are very dependent upon one another. One nation or even a half dozen, wouldn't be allowed by the others to merely collapse.
Perhaps it would drag others down. But perhaps not.
Unless your Magic 8 ball is more reliable than mine, that is.
About 1/3rd to half of the people featured on the show have already been evicted from their homes because they spent all of their money buying canned food and bullets instead of paying the mortgage.
I wasn't aware of this. Where do you get your info?
I fear that our acting on impulse and not thinking things over have really brought us down to a degree. Such things worry me........ and I don't believe in this whole gobbledygook on the end of the world....... the film Knowing is a case in point.
About 1/3rd to half of the people featured on the show have already been evicted from their homes because they spent all of their money buying canned food and bullets instead of paying the mortgage.
I wasn't aware of this. Where do you get your info?
You know, that probably was an exaggeration on my part though they did have the couple who got evicted and then were living out of the husband's big rig. The wife kept going on and on about how she had to abandon most of her prepping supplies when they got foreclosed on so I have to wonder why they were presumably spending thousands on prepping stuff but not paying their mortgage. Then there was the black guy who was a fire fighter in NYC who at the end of his segment admitted he was getting evicted from his apartment for not paying the rent. Again, why have your apartment stuffed full of thousands of dollars of stuff instead of paying your rent?
A third example was the fat guy from Tennesee on the show who was unemployed, hadn't paid his mortgage in like three years but found money to put dozens of barrels of dried corn away and was showing off his huge collection of guns and ammo. Maybe he should have sold the guns, sold his radios, and not bought all that other stuff if he was getting foreclosed on. Then again I read some where that he was found to be crazy by a court (mentally incompetent) so maybe he couldn't help it; I just have to wonder why he was spending all of his money preparing for stuff that was unlikely to happen but ignoring stuff which WILL happen (like getting foreclosed on if you don't pay your mortgage).
Lastly there was that over weight house wife from Utah who declared bankruptcy in 2009 and was getting sued in civil court for fraud, she was pleading poverty to the court as to why she couldn't pay, but then she went on the show showing off her big collection of guns and tens of thousands of dollars in survival supplies. Again not smart but I suppose those sort of legal problems are in a different category from the other three where people just didn't pay their mortgages and instead bought prepping stuff. Anyway, she'll no doubt end up losing her home by the time the courts are through with her. I could speculate about the guy who shot off his thumb on TV on accident and then admitted he didn't have health insurance but that would just be speculation, he really should have been spending his money getting health insurance for him family instead of buying dozens of gas masks and cans of spam.
Last edited by Think4Yourself; 08-08-2012 at 07:06 PM..
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