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I probably don't mind writing this as much as you're going to hate reading it, but it's too bad I wasn't aware of this 12 - 18 months ago. I purchased a Dillion 550 back in 1990, so it made my complete reloading kits that used a RCBS Rock Chucker and Lyman turret press redundant. Last year, I shipped my last reloading kit, complete with mechanical scale, cheap plastic Lyman calipers, reloading manuals, and everything but the dies to an internet acquaintance. I bought and paid for them, so when my dad decided he was going to give them to a cheap miser friend of his who was only going to sell them for profit, I decided that I'd give them away to anybody but him. All the recipient needed was a desire to start reloading. I truly am saddened because the two people I gave kits to still haven't used them! It grates me to no end to hear the one guy I gave a kit to complain to me on voice communications about how expensive factory ammunition is... I even paid for the shipping!
Haha, well thanks either way. I'm still in the Marines and do a lot of moving. Military contracted movers won't move ammunition so I have to box it up and move it myself. Needless to say if I had a reloading kit I'd need a U-haul just to move all the ammo I'd made! As of right now I plan to retire from the Marines around the 20 year mark (about 7 more to go) and when I have my family settled in our post-military lives, I will really hit the reloading hard. I will probably start before then if I can, but I'll have to be careful about how much ammo piles up in my place.
I can see what you mean about being frustrated that the guy is not using the free reloading equipment but complains about retail prices for ammo. I would interupt him every time he brought it up and mention how much cheaper it would be to reload. Especially since the "start-up" kit was provided to him for free! I mentioned to my brother that I wanted to start reloading and he asked if I shot enough to justify the investment in the equipment. While "shooting enough" was not necessarily the point of my wanting to start reloading, it's a valid point he makes. But when the initial investment is no cost, it is an instant no-brainer! As I sit now, I have some friends who own all the reloading equipment. Any time I fire center fire ammo I save the brass and plan on hitting them up to let me reload it with their equipment.
Regarding what you call "frightenend prepper syndrome," I think that it's true to say that fear and uncertainty are the underlying basis for a lot of people's decisions. The trick is to recognize when you are letting irrational emotions influence your thought process and normalize it out of the decision. This is hard to do for a lot of people. We are passionate and emotional beings. Thinking rationally and clearly in a crisis or in preparation for one is as much a skill to be learned and honed as is the hunting, trapping, shooting, and all other skills valued by preppers.
Rimfire is important because of the lesser likelihood of ignition.
As has been said they do not have a primer, rather the priming solution is put into the empty case wet, and then spun to distribute it along the rim of the brass (hence, rimfire)
However this often results in unequal distribution, and is why you can have a misfire much more likely than with a center fire (or round with a primer)
Rendering it in my, and many others opinion unsuitable for a life threatening situation.
(setting 'stopping power' aside)
Rimfire is important because of the lesser likelihood of ignition.
As has been said they do not have a primer, rather the priming solution is put into the empty case wet, and then spun to distribute it along the rim of the brass (hence, rimfire)
However this often results in unequal distribution, and is why you can have a misfire much more likely than with a center fire (or round with a primer)
Rendering it in my, and many others opinion unsuitable for a life threatening situation.
(setting 'stopping power' aside)
That's interesting.
For more than 15 years, I went through 100 - 2000 rounds per week, and I never had a problem with center fire primers not functioning, yet during that same period, I do recall .22 rim fire misfires. Not a huge problem, but it did occur often enough for me to notice.
I had 10,000 - 15,000 center fire primers get submerged in my basement during a tropical storm. My dad said about tossing them because he didn't trust them. I simply dumped them on cookie sheets, put them out in the sun for a week, returning them to the garage at night, and when I used them, they all functioned. I'm not going to charge that they'd make match grade ammunition, but they did function. This last bit would also help those that are storing primers and powder. Yes, it's ideal to have them stored in a dry area, but it's by no means the last word. Our damp basement is the only place I have to use, and it's not been an issue thus far for powder and primers. I've never had a problem with loaded ammunition from the 40s/50s that I know for a fact was stored incorrectly ever since the 1960s. I've shot several thousand rounds of it without a problem.
Most, if not all of my misfires, can be attributed to poor reloading habits. I tumble all my brass, and I use a teaspoon of "Brasso," because I'm too cheap to buy the real stuff. Every once and a while, one case gets gunked up with the Brasso because I've not let the tumbler run for ten minutes after putting the Brasso on the media, but before adding the brass. The other problem is when I anneal brass by using a cake pan filled with 1 - 2 inches of water. I sometimes don't let them dry properly, and it causes a misfire. I've found that primers are usually so reliable that they're almost flawless.
I'm not saying that I think the .22 is desireable in a SHTF situation for self defense, I'm just saying, like many others have, that it's more ideal than nothing for someone who isn't trained in the art of knife fighting or something. Sure, I'd much rather have me a 357 on hand, but given my skill set, if I had to choose between a knife or a .22, I'd pick the .22 everytime.
As far as stopping power? Yeah, the .22 has some. I to have seen it drop a cow and a horse. But, it can also be very weak. One time, I saw someone getting ready to slaughter a pig. They shot the thing right in the head and all it did was squeal andd run about. This took place several more times until they finaly just walked up and put it right to the back of the pigs ear where the slug had easy access to the brain. That dropped it.
Early this summer I shot at a coon that was a nightly annoyance, eating our cats food, tipping the trash bin over making a huge mess, and garden season was nearing so I didn't want to lose any corn to it. One night at a late hour, I heard something knocking around outside the door. I went over and turned the light on and there he was, trying to knock the trash bin over. I went and grabbed the closest thing to me, which was a .22 revolver opened the door, aimed the best I could in a night time setting and fired. The coon ceased his activity for a moment and just stood there not moving, { I think it was in shock or something } then, slowly turned around and tried to scoot away. Believe it or not, that coon took 5 more rounds in it's journey across the front yard and it still was not "stopped" yet. It took a blast of #6 shot from a 20 ga. to finaly flip his light switch. This story shows the over-all weakness of the round and that trying to "stop" something, shot placement really is key. Had I been able to see well enough to get the first shot to it's head, that would have been all it would have taken no doubt. I just tried to shoot center mass and it obviously gave the coon time to try and dash through the front yard. Now imagine a hopped up on pcp or crack dude coming right at you, if it gave the coon so much more time, what do you think it might do to someone who is oblivious to pain?
I'm not saying that I think the .22 is desireable in a SHTF situation for self defense, I'm just saying, like many others have, that it's more ideal than nothing for someone who isn't trained in the art of knife fighting or something. Sure, I'd much rather have me a 357 on hand, but given my skill set, if I had to choose between a knife or a .22, I'd pick the .22 everytime.
As far as stopping power? Yeah, the .22 has some. I to have seen it drop a cow and a horse. But, it can also be very weak. One time, I saw someone getting ready to slaughter a pig. They shot the thing right in the head and all it did was squeal andd run about. This took place several more times until they finaly just walked up and put it right to the back of the pigs ear where the slug had easy access to the brain. That dropped it.
Early this summer I shot at a coon that was a nightly annoyance, eating our cats food, tipping the trash bin over making a huge mess, and garden season was nearing so I didn't want to lose any corn to it. One night at a late hour, I heard something knocking around outside the door. I went over and turned the light on and there he was, trying to knock the trash bin over. I went and grabbed the closest thing to me, which was a .22 revolver opened the door, aimed the best I could in a night time setting and fired. The coon ceased his activity for a moment and just stood there not moving, { I think it was in shock or something } then, slowly turned around and tried to scoot away. Believe it or not, that coon took 5 more rounds in it's journey across the front yard and it still was not "stopped" yet. It took a blast of #6 shot from a 20 ga. to finaly flip his light switch. This story shows the over-all weakness of the round and that trying to "stop" something, shot placement really is key. Had I been able to see well enough to get the first shot to it's head, that would have been all it would have taken no doubt. I just tried to shoot center mass and it obviously gave the coon time to try and dash through the front yard. Now im running away from youagine a hopped up on pcp or crack dude coming right at you, if t gae the coon so much more time, what do you think it might do to someone who is oblivious to pain?
Go do some reading on 'The 21 foot rule'
You will be surprised to learn that at close range:
You'll likely be better off with a good knife!
Speaking of knives there is just never a time I don't have at least one folder in my pocket. I tend to go with assisted folders. so these are not tiny for Cali models either. i don't even think about a knife, it's just there.
Since march and quitting smoking I must think about fire and carry a lighter. That is something I nag my wife about too since she is a sinner and forgets Fire!
A flint and steel is one thing, a bic is another, and each of us should have access to fast tooling for if any needs should arise.
To me these items are just everyday things.... That goes for just staying home too.
You will be surprised to learn that at close range:
You'll likely be better off with a good knife!
sometimes. if you are inside 21 feet with a knife, and I pull my pistol out I can point shoot and empty a full magazine into a perp before they can get within 5 feet of me. having been trained on it and still practice it as well. alot of people might not be able to do it, but I have been taught how to.
And the crux of the problem is, do you really think I'm just going to stand by and let you pump me full of rounds? How will you react to being struck with .357 Magnum while you're shooting at somebody armed only with your .22 rim fire? Which keeps bringing us back full circle over and over again. A .22 rim fire isn't a good option for most cases, scenarios, and possible future events, therefore, the theory that any gun is better than none is complete rubbish. In present and past day gunfights, most of them occur within striking distance, therefore a knife is equally as deadly.
I've been in one gun fight, and I've seen quite a few go down. In each case, including my own, the combatants were within ten feet or less of each other when the altercation started. There is one exception to what I've seen. I was a club DJ in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania for ten years. One night, two individuals got into a scuffle, we kicked them out, and it continued out on the street. From 30 - 40 feet, the two men squared off, brandished high capacity semi autos, and proceeded to empty them at each other. I swear to god they hit every building in downtown Harrisburg, but missed each other... That's the only handgun fight I've ever seen that took place at distances greater than 10 feet. With the exception of the last gunfight I've talked about, a razor sharp knife and knowledge of basic human anatomy would have been more effective than a handgun regardless of caliber. Is this an all inclusive account of all gunfights? Hardly... I feel it does shed some light on people's limited ideas on what they need in a gunfight. It's not always a gun. Moreover, the idea that any gun is better than none isn't always the best plan. Additionally, all of your arguments are in the past and today. A world with rules, laws, and the like. In a world without the rule of law, I would have no qualms about killing a neighbor or stranger that I perceived as a threat to my well being, competition for resources, and the like because there would be nobody to arrest me, and anybody capable of retaliation for my crime against a family would also be dispatched. It's pretty easy to kill somebody when there's absolutely no penalty. Additionally, lying in wait to ambush somebody from a distance when they're not expecting it is a lot like punching paper. Since our topic is all about a SHTF scenario, the niceties we follow today do not apply.
Fred, it could very well be a colloquialism in my part of the world, because I've heard more than one person in my area respond "Rim fire" when asked what caliber it is.
I probably don't mind writing this as much as you're going to hate reading it, but it's too bad I wasn't aware of this 12 - 18 months ago. I purchased a Dillion 550 back in 1990, so it made my complete reloading kits that used a RCBS Rock Chucker and Lyman turret press redundant. Last year, I shipped my last reloading kit, complete with mechanical scale, cheap plastic Lyman calipers, reloading manuals, and everything but the dies to an internet acquaintance. I bought and paid for them, so when my dad decided he was going to give them to a cheap miser friend of his who was only going to sell them for profit, I decided that I'd give them away to anybody but him. All the recipient needed was a desire to start reloading. I truly am saddened because the two people I gave kits to still haven't used them! It grates me to no end to hear the one guy I gave a kit to complain to me on voice communications about how expensive factory ammunition is... I even paid for the shipping!
To whippersnapper and others:
I'm sorry that I am so "long winded," but the majority of the scenarios, beliefs, and ideas put forth throughout this thread require further explanation. Moreover, we're a large rather expansive crowd. Some people have expert knowledge when it comes to firearms, hunting, and self-defense, while others are completely clueless. Hence, to those that already have a good working knowledge, much of what I say is redundant. But to the inexperienced, it's all new ground. I am mostly appealing to people without firearms knowledge that would like to get into it, but have no clue. I'm also addressing that I've come to refer as "Frightened Prepper Syndrome," and I'm trying to steer them clear of bad economic decisions due to nefarious marketing ploys that play on people's emotions, and at the same time, should their fears come to realization, I'm trying to help them make better decisions of types of firearms, calibers, and reloading as well as what supplies to purchase, and how much.
not worried about it, the question was have I ever shot at people and ever been shot at. if you are on my property rushing me with a 357, i wont be shooting at you with a 22, I will be shooting at your body at the longest range i can. 50 bmg at long range, or 762x51 at anything less. let me know if you can get in the front door.
I'll come back and read this page later on tonight..... My eyes are getting tired from all the long winded individuals.
Don't get me wrong, the thread has been very informative and I'm enjoying it.
not long winded, just dont like it when people say it is almost impossible to get killed with a 22, or that people would rather come to a gun fight with a knife than a gun.
the amount of ammo you should have on hand is the amount you think you should have. 1000 might be good for some and 100k might be good for others, just depends on the person.
not worried about it, the question was have I ever shot at people and ever been shot at. if you are on my property rushing me with a 357, i wont be shooting at you with a 22, I will be shooting at your body at the longest range i can. 50 bmg at long range, or 762x51 at anything less. let me know if you can get in the front door.
I'll give you one thing, you sure can come up with some over the top scenarios.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Themanwithnoname
Go do some reading on 'The 21 foot rule'
You will be surprised to learn that at close range:
You'll likely be better off with a good knife!
Is it just me, or can anybody else hear a bugle?
Last edited by bolillo_loco; 09-19-2012 at 05:47 PM..
Reason: I am no Rhodes scholar...
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