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Old 10-08-2012, 05:42 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,480,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Now -- methane gas (CH4) is converted into liquid methanol (CH3OH) by first converting the methane to carbon monoxide (CO) or carbon dioxide (CO2) and molecular hydrogen (H2) using steam (heated H2O) via the Syngas Method

CH4 + H2O → CO + 3 H2

More hydrogen can be generated from that carbon monoxide (CO) with more steam
CO + H2O → CO2 + H2

So, now you have a bunch of carbon monoxide or carbon dioxide and molecular hydrogen that can be converted to methanol with the aid of a catalyst (normally a metal like copper or zinc -- not part of the reaction, just a helper):

CO + 2 H2 → CH3OH (one molecule of methanol)
or CO2 + 3 H2 → CH3OH + H2O (one molecule of methanol and one molecule of water)

Because the canning process produces steam, and the ripe fruit/veg naturally produces some methane, and copper and zinc are common minerals found in food... it is possible for a small amount of methanol to be produced above that naturally occuring in pectin/cellulose bearing fruit & veg. BUT this would only occur during the canning process (especially under pressure), or as a result of some other catalytic conversion inside the sealed container.

Something forcing an energy transfer must occur to break and reform molecular bonds in a closed container with reduced biological action... just sitting on a room temp shelf isn't going to do it in this case. Which is evidenced by the fact that newly canned peaches and 100 yo canned peaches have virtually identical methanol levels, the same proportionately higher amount than the fresh peaches... which could be explained by the heat-induced methane → methanol conversion process.

If anything... methane is consumed during and prohibited as a result of the heat treatment canning process.

Organic Chemistry is your friend

Your snowed in already up there in The Last Frontier, arent you.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:38 PM
 
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make that 1900, and you'll be right on. 1700-1900, they ate the same as their European forebears, with some local Indian stuff tossed in.
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Old 10-10-2012, 10:02 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 9,899,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
Your snowed in already up there in The Last Frontier, arent you.
Not quite yet, but we're below freezing except right around noon on sunny days already... although first hard frost is normally Labor Day, we don't normally get properly "snowed in" until around Halloween. By Christmas, we'll rarely get above 0F, only have a few hours of sunlight, and will really be appreciating our canned fruit and veg

Lucked out during our supply trip into town last weekend and found 50lb local boiling potatoes on mega-sale... woohoo... 50 pints of taters coming soon!! I've also got fresh crates of citrus scheduled for overnight delivery from a friend of mine in TX to a friend who lives in F'banks in early Nov (when they come in season); and we'll have a huge canning & dehydrating party when I make our last supply trip. The sauerkraut we started last weekend should be ready to can up by then as well! I've already put up (frozen, dried and canned) our wild blueberries and cranberries. Looks like we won't be able to put up as many local apples and pears as we normally do since the rainy summer limited production
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Old 10-12-2012, 05:31 PM
 
25,619 posts, read 36,480,386 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MissingAll4Seasons View Post
Not quite yet, but we're below freezing except right around noon on sunny days already... although first hard frost is normally Labor Day, we don't normally get properly "snowed in" until around Halloween. By Christmas, we'll rarely get above 0F, only have a few hours of sunlight, and will really be appreciating our canned fruit and veg

Lucked out during our supply trip into town last weekend and found 50lb local boiling potatoes on mega-sale... woohoo... 50 pints of taters coming soon!! I've also got fresh crates of citrus scheduled for overnight delivery from a friend of mine in TX to a friend who lives in F'banks in early Nov (when they come in season); and we'll have a huge canning & dehydrating party when I make our last supply trip. The sauerkraut we started last weekend should be ready to can up by then as well! I've already put up (frozen, dried and canned) our wild blueberries and cranberries. Looks like we won't be able to put up as many local apples and pears as we normally do since the rainy summer limited production
LOL sounds good. Glad Im in California's Central Valley during Winter. Although we do keep a well stocked larder at a cabin in the Sierra just in case

You didnt miss the joke I was make though, did you?
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Interior AK
4,729 posts, read 9,899,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldogdad View Post
LOL sounds good. Glad Im in California's Central Valley during Winter. Although we do keep a well stocked larder at a cabin in the Sierra just in case

You didnt miss the joke I was make though, did you?
LOL - what? that only someone snowed in and totally BORED bug-butt crazy would go into such level of detail on organic chemistry in a SS&P forum thread?!?! Nope, not at all
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:56 PM
 
2,401 posts, read 4,660,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor'Eastah View Post
All of this stuff is just plain horseradish.

I've been eating canned fruits and juices for 65 years now (longer than most of you have been alive) and I dunno...maybe that's what makes me so ornery (?). My ancestors ate and drank canned as well, and lived to good old ages.

All right now, those of you who are scaredy-cats can go back to your conversation. I'll just mosey on down to the basement and maybe grab a can of apricots with the skin still on 'em. Sounds good right about now.


Yuper!!!
My FIL has a big A$$ orchard & he cans apples & pears every single year.
My MIL also canned tomatos, beans & many other stuff since my DH was a baby.
They are both in their 70plus years (no MS or A) & still canning every year.... healthier than most people their age.

Not only do they canned... their parents canned too & lived till over 80s & 90s.

So now...
canned foods are better for you or all that pharmaceutical drugs approved by FDA better for you...
Remember now... all the lawsuit businesses (on TV) that the lawyers want from people who suffered the "side effects" from the "approved" consumed drugs?????
then lets see who is "talking"????

Sometimes sheeps (for fleecing & mindless slaughter) are things that makes one go hmmmm... really.
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Old 10-13-2012, 10:04 PM
 
Location: SC
9,101 posts, read 16,379,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTSilvertip View Post
Right on point

In my neck of the woods we are expecting snow this week, and temperatures down to 20 F degrees.
(kinda rough on gardens).

Once the freeze sets in, there is very little plant material available for collection and consumption. Some berries will dry on the bush, like rosehips or thornapple, you can make spruce needle tea or pine needle tea, buds and bark from quaking aspen can be eaten, but mostly, if you don't have anything preserved, (or depend on shipments from more temperate areas), the only fresh fruit you will find will be trout through the ice or maybe a grouse or pheasant.

I am no dietician, but I do look at the way the Indians lived here, and they would have sometimes have rickets and scurvey by spring because of the lack of fruits/veg if they didn't have enough dried and stored.

Mountain Men and Pioneers ran into the same problem.

Methane is a natural byproduct of normal decomposition of organic material in an anaerobic environment,(no oxygen). That is how methane gas and natural gas are made.

In this case, it seems to me that either drying or pickling would be the top choices for storage as the drying exposes the fruit to air and doesn't limit the oxygen exposure, and the acids in vinagar while excellent anti-oxidents, will also limit the growth of bacteria as well, with canning running a strong 3rd.

There used to be apples that would store in a root cellar for the winter too and be edible. Not widely available today, but may be something to look at for those who's climate will support that kind of orchard.
I agree. Dehydrating, because the food is NOT cooked, retains more nutrients than canned. Also fermented foods have wonderful health benefits. So these two methods would be my first choices. That is probably why the Indians survived as well as they did. Their food preservation methods retained more of the nutritional value from food than more modern methods where so much more of the nutrition is destroyed in cooked pasturized food---not to mention that so much of it barely deserves to be called food but might more aptly be called phude due to its genetic engineering. Not only is it dead but it isn"t even real let alone the least bit healthful. In fact it causes more health problems. Jeffrey Smith -- Doctors Warn: Avoid Genetically Modified Food

http://www.naturalhealthstrategies.c...ied-foods.html

I just emptied out some cartons of grapefruit juice and lemonade and won't be buying any more cartons from the refrigerated section. If I get any juice again from a store, they'll be from the frozen foods section but I'll probably be primarily juicing my own fresh juice in my juicer minutes before I drink it.

Last edited by emilybh; 10-13-2012 at 10:16 PM..
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