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Interesting, but the common theme in Sandy was everybody took it on the chin and were devastated. I hope this is some sort or "evolution" in human behavior, but I have my weapons just in case that isnt true!
My wife being Japanese, I have a few Japanese friends myself, not counting in-laws (thankfully they all accept this crazy white man as their son in law, their dad and I have a thing in common: we both used to race down highways!).
So, a friend of mine who is a Tokyoite said she had neighbors drop by checking in on her. She normally keeps dried foods on hand just in case, and folks were all caught in the same thing. Yes there was hoarding and store cleaning out, and for a couple weeks there were rations, but it was over relatively quickly.
However, the husband of another friend of mine was from Fukushima, and I hear his town was pretty much wiped off the map. He hasn't heard from a friend of his, and he assumes he got killed. What's really heart breaking was how his family probably didn't get the body because of the radiation. In the surrounding towns people were desperate for a few months before the government stepped in with temporary shelters, some of whom still live in them. You had news of folks being taken advantage of but if you stood fast in your home, you likely would have a neighbor come by and help.
My in-laws basically stayed indoors for a week while the rains came ... scary times they said, but neighbors did come back to check on them.
So, while I like to think folks would check up on people, I think if things got REAL bad, things would be very different. What is heartening is that if things are "recoverable" people will band together with isolated issues, but I like what Mac_Muz said, society would essentially devolve into "gas, grass, or ass" would be the rule, and if you didn't have none of that, you'd best scram or get a cap busted in you, if things got REAL bad.
That’s a lovely world view, and it would be grand if it were true. It’s written from the lens of someone who wants to see it. Confirmation Bias, as Think4 stated, is a hypnotic state. In fact, there was rioting, there were thefts and looting. While the writer waxes eloquently and places the typical Liberal spin out of Berkeley – blaming the fears of looting on “elite panic: “fear of social disorder; fear of poor, minorities and immigrants; obsession with looting and property crime; willingness to resort to deadly force; and actions taken on the basis of rumor.” It's not true that only the elite panic, and it's not true that it's a fear of poor, minorities, and immigrants. What an insulting, condescending and asinine statement! This is the typical worldview of the Liberal, that a legitimate concern about organized gangs is reduced to the Liberals' own prejudices about the aforementioned groups of people, and it's overlaid on every conversation. They make it all about race and class, when most of the people who are preparing don't even consider that. We are concerned about predators. And predators come in all colors and from all classes. As mom used to say, "When one finger points out, three fingers point back at you." Reducing this conversation about looting and theft to an "elite panic" that indicts people for wanting to be safe is getting tiresome.
I will agree and I have witnessed that initially there are pockets of communities helping each other. But it isn’t as widespread as this writer would like to believe. And this is just another narrative subtly putting forward the gun control crowd’s agenda. "Ooooh, we don’t need to worry about violence. See? The nice people are giving each other electricity! See how nicely they are playing?"
Ohhhh, give it another month and then we’ll talk. Even the MSM on the Left reported violence.
Yes – in Hawaii after our hurricanes, we had people setting up hibachis one after another down the center of the debris-strewn street. Everyone brought their thawing food out of their freezers and started a big neighborhood barbecue, making sure everyone was fed. It’s a beautiful thing. In Mississippi after Katrina, all the good ol' boys jumped in their trucks, grabbed their chainsaws and went around clearing the roads and going house to house to make sure everyone was OK. It does happen.
However, there was still looting. There was still price gouging. And there was quite a bit of food hoarding. Grocery store shelves emptied out quickly. As time wore on, there were hucksters coming in and offering to fix up properties then taking off with the money without doing the work.
As for the beauty of human nature showing up – of course there are people who do that. After Sandy, GoalZero set up a solar giveaway and also set up places where people could charge their electronics. There were stories like that. But lest we forget the insanity not only during but in the months following Katrina, there are predators who take advantage of these situations.
The whole “let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya” crowd just loves to sit in their ivory towers and wax eloquent as this article writer has done. Reality is quite something else again. More than likely the person who wrote it saw a half dozen examples of the wonderful resilience of healthy human beings and then ran back to her little cave and wrote the story. Her narrative represents her WISH that these things could be universal, but does not represent what really went down, as all the links I posted testify.
The best thing we can do is create good relationships with neighbors before we need the support. Find persons of like mind and make plans for what we will do in the event of trouble. There will always be pockets of what that writer talks about. We need to circle the wagons and find them so we can protect ourselves from the wolves.
That’s a lovely world view, and it would be grand if it were true. It’s written from the lens of someone who wants to see it. Confirmation Bias, as Think4 stated, is a hypnotic state. In fact, there was rioting, there were thefts and looting. While the writer waxes eloquently and places the typical Liberal spin out of Berkeley – blaming the fears of looting on “elite panic: “fear of social disorder; fear of poor, minorities and immigrants; obsession with looting and property crime; willingness to resort to deadly force; and actions taken on the basis of rumor.†It's not true that only the elite panic, and it's not true that it's a fear of poor, minorities, and immigrants. What an insulting, condescending and asinine statement! This is the typical worldview of the Liberal, that a legitimate concern about organized gangs is reduced to the Liberals' own prejudices about the aforementioned groups of people, and it's overlaid on every conversation. They make it all about race and class, when most of the people who are preparing don't even consider that. We are concerned about predators. And predators come in all colors and from all classes. As mom used to say, "When one finger points out, three fingers point back at you." Reducing this conversation about looting and theft to an "elite panic" that indicts people for wanting to be safe is getting tiresome.
I will agree and I have witnessed that initially there are pockets of communities helping each other. But it isn’t as widespread as this writer would like to believe. And this is just another narrative subtly putting forward the gun control crowd’s agenda. "Ooooh, we don’t need to worry about violence. See? The nice people are giving each other electricity! See how nicely they are playing?"
Ohhhh, give it another month and then we’ll talk. Even the MSM on the Left reported violence.
Yes – in Hawaii after our hurricanes, we had people setting up hibachis one after another down the center of the debris-strewn street. Everyone brought their thawing food out of their freezers and started a big neighborhood barbecue, making sure everyone was fed. It’s a beautiful thing. In Mississippi after Katrina, all the good ol' boys jumped in their trucks, grabbed their chainsaws and went around clearing the roads and going house to house to make sure everyone was OK. It does happen.
However, there was still looting. There was still price gouging. And there was quite a bit of food hoarding. Grocery store shelves emptied out quickly. As time wore on, there were hucksters coming in and offering to fix up properties then taking off with the money without doing the work.
As for the beauty of human nature showing up – of course there are people who do that. After Sandy, GoalZero set up a solar giveaway and also set up places where people could charge their electronics. There were stories like that. But lest we forget the insanity not only during but in the months following Katrina, there are predators who take advantage of these situations.
The whole “let’s hold hands and sing kumbaya†crowd just loves to sit in their ivory towers and wax eloquent as this article writer has done. Reality is quite something else again. More than likely the person who wrote it saw a half dozen examples of the wonderful resilience of healthy human beings and then ran back to her little cave and wrote the story. Her narrative represents her WISH that these things could be universal, but does not represent what really went down, as all the links I posted testify.
The best thing we can do is create good relationships with neighbors before we need the support. Find persons of like mind and make plans for what we will do in the event of trouble. There will always be pockets of what that writer talks about. We need to circle the wagons and find them so we can protect ourselves from the wolves.
Before you remove the mote from your brothers eye, remove the plank from your own.
Look confirmation bias works both ways, and like I said I live remotely to be away from a bunch of people who might go crazy because they can't get twinkies any more, my nearest city is 160 miles away half of it on a gravelled road, and I reach that via about a mile and a half of trail and my official state address is a set of Lat-Long coordinates. You can hardly state that me publishing that article is my own confirmation bias, since I can guaran-f**king-tee that I'm in a location where a riot here can consist of pretty much a maximum of 20 people, I know them all, and their names, who their kids are, what they do for a living, and who they voted for in the last election. I'm here precisely because I AM concerned about civil disturbance in population centers if things go from bad to worse. Oh and those 20 people are about 20 miles away from me and that's in the nearest "population center". If we're talking immediate vicinity then within a mile a riot could only consist of 2 other people. I'm just presenting an alternative perspective.
So, you see the fact that there was rioting and looting, it confirms your belief in human nature that we're all just one cup of coffee away from being a bunch of neanderthals, and yes the media will cover that information, because it makes better news, the media works from advertizing, no readers, no advertizing. However it can be claimed you suffer from confirmation bias yourself, you're scanning obvious headlines and saying I told you so and ignoring other data that does not support your position. There will never be any natural or other disaster that will not produce some opportunistic criminal, the issue is whether the numbers are high enough to really matter.
It's got nothing to do with political positions, to even bring that up is a deflection. There's only data and analysis, if you're ignoring data that contradicts your hypothesis, then that's confirmation bias.
OK so lets analyze the stories, HuffPo a pharmacy in Coney Island raided, ok hardly widespread looting, Rockaway 15 people charged with looting, in a community of 6,474 people, well that's 0.023% and nothing. Monmouth county 25 arrests, out of 631,020 that's 0.0039% and less than nothing. Sandy looting arrests page, total of 271 reported burglaries in a 5 day period, compared to last year for the same period with 267, that's a total of 4 more burglaries than last year with no lights on, that's noise. Thanksgiving looting, was three places burgled, if there hadn't been a hurricane this wouldn't have even made the Boston Globe.
So far there have been at least 13 people arrested for looting across the borough according to the D.A."s office and residents say the looting started almost immediately after the storm ended.
Holy moley 13 people arrested in Staten island population 470,467 what a crime spree, it's clearly the end of civilization as we know it.
Look I'm not trying to say that there are people who do not take advantage of circumstances particularly tragic circumstance, but look at the facts with some perspective. 15 people in Rockaway arrested ok lets assume that twice that number actually committed crime, or even make it 10 times that amount, and it's not a huge segment of the community at 10 times, it's 1 in 500 and that's the highest percentage of people caught in a community. Damn I know places where only 15 people arrested on a Saturday night is between six and seven times a better night than normal, the police would wonder what the hell was going on, not because it's bad, but because it was only a fraction of the arrests normally made.
It makes great reading but lets be honest here, think back to the 1977 blackouts in NYC looting and vandalism in 31 neighborhoods, 134 stores looted 45 of them set on fire on Broadway alone, 50 new Pontiacs stolen from a car dealership 1,616 stored looted, and 1,037 fires responded to, and those are just some of the highlight reel, 4500 arrests, 550 police injured. Was it even remotely like that? No, and that's the order of magnitude of what was being predicted. If the effects of Sandy HAD been that severe you may have a point, but to pick up on seriously isolated events with small numbers (and yes they are isolated, and few in number) and to state that it shows people will riot for a bag of corn nuts, well the data from New York says otherwise. I'll add that 1977 riot was caused by a mere 27 hour blackout, not at all like the multiple day blackout of Sandy, although as an interesting aside Rockaway wasn't affected by that blackout.
But in all cases it's a temporary "collapse" and people take advantage when opportunity strikes.
What if it's not temporary though...what if we can't afford to give people food stamps, TANF, pay for their heating oil and cell phones and homes (sec 8 housing).
What if they have to make it on their own because we don't have enough money to give everyone subsidized lifestyles ?
60% of the US budget goes to entitlement programs. We only have 40% to play with now if you assume no cuts.
And that 60% will grow as each month brings new records to the programs.
My wife being Japanese, I have a few Japanese friends myself, not counting in-laws (thankfully they all accept this crazy white man as their son in law, their dad and I have a thing in common: we both used to race down highways!).
So, a friend of mine who is a Tokyoite said she had neighbors drop by checking in on her. She normally keeps dried foods on hand just in case, and folks were all caught in the same thing. Yes there was hoarding and store cleaning out, and for a couple weeks there were rations, but it was over relatively quickly.
However, the husband of another friend of mine was from Fukushima, and I hear his town was pretty much wiped off the map. He hasn't heard from a friend of his, and he assumes he got killed. What's really heart breaking was how his family probably didn't get the body because of the radiation. In the surrounding towns people were desperate for a few months before the government stepped in with temporary shelters, some of whom still live in them. You had news of folks being taken advantage of but if you stood fast in your home, you likely would have a neighbor come by and help.
My in-laws basically stayed indoors for a week while the rains came ... scary times they said, but neighbors did come back to check on them.
So, while I like to think folks would check up on people, I think if things got REAL bad, things would be very different. What is heartening is that if things are "recoverable" people will band together with isolated issues, but I like what Mac_Muz said, society would essentially devolve into "gas, grass, or ass" would be the rule, and if you didn't have none of that, you'd best scram or get a cap busted in you, if things got REAL bad.
Git cowboy boots with spurs, a hat, and start yellin' Yee Haw a lot. Swagger when you walk and spit too
The rifle to start with is a bolt 22 IMO....... The next gun in order should be a pump 12 Ga. After that a rifle in a commonly found round chambering like .308.
I own hand guns but in a real SHTF these will be of little value if any UNLESS you need it to get back to your rifles and shotguns.
It's hard to carry a long gun in the USA on a day to day routine.... That is where a hand gun works best. It might get you home to your other guns...
People who insist on pistols only are fools...... On the other hand people who don't bother with a hand gun are not that bad off.
The 22 is to practice. The other day i bought what is known as a Brick. This means 500 rounds in the box and for 30 bucks in this case. Sub Sonic 22 Long Rifle by Remington, which are quieter.One box of 50 was missing when i opened the carton the next day...... Oh well can't cry over spilt milk.
The point is 30 bucks won't buy much big brass ammo, and big brass ammo is louder yet and recoil hits you harder......
It just might be you can interest your wife some day if you buy quiet ammo........ maybe......
Also starting with a 22 with less recoil and less noise will not teach you to flinch. There is no point to shoot any gun that you fear. You can't fear and control your own body.... Same thing in anger.
No one I know can shoot or ride a motorcycle well in either. That of course counts me.
I am reminded how insane humans can act when I see videos of "Black Friday" Shopping. For those who don't live in the US, Black Friday is the day after Thanksgiving when the Christmas season shopping starts. It is believed that this is the day that puts retailers "in the black" - meaning they finally make a little profit for their businesses.
This compendium of videos from last year should sober all of us up. Should the SHTF, THIS is what we can expect from the people who have done little to plan. Remember, these people are just trying to get a bargain. Imagine what will happen when what they are going for is food and water. God help us all.
I couldint agree more. Add hunger, thirst, shelter, power, ammo, money, gasoline into the mix and give them all guns with no training and you have a large number of the current populous. Just look at the way people drive during rush hour every day and how they feel they are entitled to take the path of least resistance at the safety of others.
Is just like when you were in grade school and the power goes out.....the whole class becomes loud as F* and out of control within seconds. These are the true nasty human traits of people in numbers. We may be a sophisticated society, but we have given control of ALL of our commodities over to the government and their "private" partners like (Monsanto) and other shady regulators of our Food, water, gas, power, transportation, medicine, communication, money etc... and when they control it, they control the animals....the sheep. If any or all of these candy-coated systems has the plug pulled, mass panic could insue, and all of the untrained (armed) people who cut you off on the highway will then feel entitled to your commodities.
I can only name even a few of my friends who know how to start fire with flint and steel or search nature for commodities. Most of the general populous does not know either. One must beware of the sociology and psychology of human nature.
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