Soon to be a VanDweller - Would love some advice (farmers, lakes)

[ChrisC]

Originally Posted by ognend

You can also work for pleasure AND be debt free at the same time. In which case you are in the "machine" by choice.

You're right. But the word "can" is the operative word here. Having the option is fine by me. But our system is set up to where it is extremely difficult to choose otherwise. And those who do are generally considered pariahs. What's the first thing a person thinks about when judging another? What he/she "does for a living." Whether he/she "made it." But I don't care about "making it." I think more people on this forum know what I have been doing to fund my life than acquaintances in "real life." I am not defined by how I make money. I see it as a necessary waste of time. And it wouldn't matter what it is I am doing. I've nearly been fired a couple of times because I have not accepted job performance "honors" graciously. But that's not part of my required task. It seriously means very little to me. I get paid to perform a service. Either it's adequate or it's not. In my case, it's always adequate because once I sell my time, it's no longer mine--it's my employer's time. And that's what I'm now slowly getting away from.

Originally Posted by ognend

Not everyone wants to forage for wild edibles nor do they know how. A sizable portion of the population is perfectly happy going to the theater, traveling, para-gliding, horseback riding or whatever the heck their hobby is AND still being debt free while working for someone.

This is certainly true. Again, that's fine by me. Just leave enough wiggle room in the regulations for an alternative choice.

Originally Posted by ognend

For many people there are many benefits of working for someone else.

True again. I've done it most all of my life, even though it's not for me. Fortunately, I'm in the process of changing that right now. At the end of my life, "working" for someone else will have been a waste of my life, in my opinion. So, I'm doing something that may not make me a whole bunch of money, and as I've mentioned here many times, I am gearing my "tiny living" style life to that income. If in the end, I spent the last years of my life doing one of the few things I've had a passion for my whole life, it will have been worth it to me.

Now... I realize not all, or even many, people feel this way. They are content putting in however many hours to get a steady paycheck and live the life of our times. And that's fine. I really don't have a problem with that at all. But it's not for everyone. For a few unfortunate souls, that life leaves a gaping whole in their lives. A hole that needs to be filled. Many folks equate that with "not wanting to work." That's unfortunate. They don't understand that in many cases, it MORE work than the corporate jobs. For some of us, it's an obsession that consumes our lives and ends up taking most all of our waking hours. Of course, that's assuming an obsessive/compulsive personality similar to mine.

It's the sort of thing where you are more fulfilled putting a bowl of white rice on your table doing what you really want to do, than you would be putting full-course French cuisine on the table, a new Mercedes, and a mansion on the hill doing things that leave that hole I referred to above. You look at that rice and you say, I earned that doing something I give a damn about.

Originally Posted by ognend

If you had children (which I am assuming you don't judging by your posts), I don't think you would be so dismissive of all the folks in the machine - the first moment your child got sick and you had no health insurance and you had to watch your child suffer without any help - you would understand. Or you would be the freeloader who would go to the ER, spend someone else's insurance/tax money and then go bankrupt on top of that, all over one illness. In your "everyone for themselves" world that would be perfectly normal.

I'm not dismissive of them. Let them do as they please. But let others do as they please as well.

No children, by design. I've always known that parenthood would never be a fit for me. Hey, at least I'm honest with myself, right? And honest with the soul(s) that I did not bring into the world. How many horrible parents out there should have made the same choice?

Besides, I was indoctrinated in grade school that there is an overpopulation problem.

Originally Posted by ognend

Chris, I like some of your posts but I seriously think you are an armchair theoretician. Nothing wrong with that, makes for a great debate.

OD

Well, we seldom agree (except for on a few things), but it's always interesting bouncing ideas around. Of course I'm an armchair theoretician. One of my first literary heroes was Ambrose Bierce (writer who wrote The Devil's Dictionary), who is also one of my favorite armchair theoreticians (for his time) and writers (love Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge! ) . Hey... early influence, I guess. Come to think of it... I'm about as cynical as he was, as well.

[Woof]

Originally Posted by Minervah

It strikes me as kind of ironic that although people are saying this vagabond way of life is the free and easy way and the typical nine to five is not, from these posts and the other thread being referenced, to me it appears to be the other way around.

With your nine to five, you put in your time, you are free to do whatever after. And you can afford to without worrying about where your next meal is coming from, if the roof over your head will be there the next day or whether or not you will be able to afford to fuel it. And you can leave it to do what you want knowing you can be pretty certain it will be there when you return. To me that is freedom.

This "free roaming" seems to be a heck of a lot of work to achieve the goal of becoming a free spirit. At least for me it would be. I am not knocking it for those to whom it appeals. I just cannot see the freedom in the uncertainties of always having to look out for the basic necessities let alone the dangers of a woman traveling alone in these times.

But to each her own. And again I wish her luck. I just can't see where that is being free. To me it's just being tied down to a whole new harsh set of rules for a different way of living.

Yes, I feel freer and more comfortable living in an apartment than in my van. It wasn't terrible being in the van (except for irritable bowel syndrome), but it didn't feel like home, and I was always conscious that my entire life would crumble if the van broke down in a big way.

It was surprisingly hard to find free parking. I was rousted from residential side streets. One place that worked fairly well was a hospital parking lot, but then that's where you spend your nights, not much entertainment. You can park in national forests for three days, but then you need fresh water and that's not so easy to find. Walmarts on the West Coast most definitely do NOT allow overnight parking, with very rare exceptions way out in the sticks like Susanville.

Well, Karmadi, try it for a week first before burning all your bridges behind you.

[AK-Cathy]

"Well, Karmadi, try it for a week first before burning all your bridges behind you."

Well, Karmadi hasn't been back to her thread so this might all be a waste of time but I awoke early so here goes...

I would say a month or two of test, especially in the winter and/or the heat of summer would be better. Perhaps several long trips to see what works and what does not. We have some experience with snow-birding in a small RV over the past 5 years and it takes some time to work through logistical issues and it's often surprising where the money goes.

A couple of those logistical issues: Keeping warm or cool in extremes of weather without power hook-ups which usually means campgrounds, either private or public, which go from the price of a good meal out to much higher per night. Between times where it might be comfortable to sleep without heat or A/C, the issue is where to safely park at night. Side residential streets might work briefly overnight but condensation on windows is a dead giveaway that someone is sleeping in the vehicle. Residents will call it in and police will move you on if they spot you on patrol.

I agree with others that it's wise to not dismiss safety concerns but the other side of the coin is that over-concern about security will lead to a "bunker mentality" where you never try anything so we tread a middle course. Take safety issues seriously, absolutely hone your intuition, have a self defense plan. Personally I'd adopt a dog. They are very good traveling company and are often much more alert than humans, awake or asleep.

Keeping clean without the campgrounds: Public toilets only go so far. At least in the western USA, truck plazas have coin-op showers and are generally safe. Get yourself some Crocs or the like to shower in to keep your feet healthy. Sad to say but as a female it is harder to keep clean. Cutting hair short or finding a style that works when oily that doesn't say homeless or slovenly is a good idea. Now that I'm past all that hormonal female stuff, it's definitely easier to skip a shower now and then.

Health care: You are likely healthy but if you require something along the way, the system is not set up for pay as you go. Some practitioners might not treat you in a non-emergency situation without health insurance. Have a savings account for such things as doctor, dental care and meds if you won't have health insurance.

Where does your mail go? Parents? A friend?

How to connect with clients while on the move: Craigslist might work for you but be careful. Make a plan for your traveling business. Will you have a website? Business cards? Work samples?

FWIW, we have a Ford F350 van that was used for transporting wheelchair patients to treatments. We bought it to move out of AK. We plan on setting it up as a camp and work van when we are done moving. Like the other poster said, we will make a platform bed over storage. We have a 12V deep cycle sealed battery system for "house" power and we will probably set it up for "shore" power as well. We will make surround curtains for the living area on a track so they can be pulled away for travel visibility. We will build a sink/grey water system and some readily accessible storage for everyday items. We have a small 12V refrigerator that we will use but we don't plan on doing too much cooking. There are small propane operated cook tops and grills that can be safely used on a picnic table if you desired to eat or drink something warm. Crock and hot pots are also useful. We will be getting a smaller plug in solar panel that we can move from RV to van to help keep house batteries charged.

I'm sure I've missed quite a few things. Ask if you need more info. We've been on the road quite a lot and we've done some construction/work barter for places to stay so if anything, we might have a few answers for you.

[Minervah]

Regarding parking on residential streets, these are very nervous times. In residential neighborhoods and I am speaking for mine which is a typical city neighborhood, anyone who would be sleeping in a van on my street would be checked up on by the police. That's just the way it is. Neighbors are on watch for anything looking out of the ordinary.

As far as mall parking, we just had a shooting at one of our local malls where two people were killed. Although parking overnight and a mall shooting would not necessarily be linked, this would still be something to make people worried enough to have this and all other malls patrolled and emptied during non shopping hours. I suspect other cities would be doing the same.

I know this sounds paranoid, but at least for the present, these are the times in which we are living. I would not suggest that anyone would be looking to sleep overnight in these public places at least for awhile.

Streets and parking lots were not meant to be used as hotels anyway. Save a bit of money and find a local hostel. They are cheap and safe. You will meet interesting people and will be welcome.

[Nor'Eastah]

Originally Posted by Minervah

I know this sounds paranoid, but at least for the present, these are the times in which we are living. I would not suggest that anyone would be looking to sleep overnight in these public places at least for awhile.

Another idea is the parking lot of a large apartment complex...in an area where the spaces are not marked by apartment number. Most of them have these for visitors. Also, cracking a window open a bit will prevemt a lot of condensation. So will having the windows tinted, where it is legal to do so.

[joe from dayton]

How do you run a sewing business out of your van?

[karmadi]

I'm still reading through the posts (thank you everyone that replied!) but I do want to take a quick second to comment on one.

Yes I'm 32 and female. I don't talk to my parents. I have two children, my 12 year old will be going with me, my 15 year old will be staying with a close family member. The fact that I am female has nothing to do with it, I've been married twice, I do my own repairs to my vehicles and I'm extremely street smart. I don't know if this will last 6 months or the rest of my life. I'd be starting in a conversion van and moving up to an RV eventually. I know a lot of people do this, and I'm not scared/worried..I never have been.

[ognend]

Originally Posted by karmadi

I'm still reading through the posts (thank you everyone that replied!) but I do want to take a quick second to comment on one.

Yes I'm 32 and female. I don't talk to my parents. I have two children, my 12 year old will be going with me, my 15 year old will be staying with a close family member. The fact that I am female has nothing to do with it, I've been married twice, I do my own repairs to my vehicles and I'm extremely street smart. I don't know if this will last 6 months or the rest of my life. I'd be starting in a conversion van and moving up to an RV eventually. I know a lot of people do this, and I'm not scared/worried..I never have been.

Ugh. A 12 year old and a 15 year old need structure and stability, NOT to run around in a van on an adventure they may not (and probably will not) understand. They also need to go to school, have steady friends and know that "it is OK" and that there will always be food on the table.

Even if you were rich and doing this for fun, it is the wrong thing to do. The right thing to do is to own up, get a job and see your kids at least through high school. That seems only a few years away anyways, judging by their ages. Then they can get to college (take up loans if they have to get the education) and you can move on.

Anyways, not the answer you may have been expecting but you posted on a public forum. I am sure you will say you love your children very much and would never do anything to harm them but think about it - a 12 year old running around in a van, sleeping in parking lots etc...ouch.

Finally, I don't know what the laws are and I am not a lawyer (they also must vary state to state) but be careful, if you are found in your van parked and sleeping on a residential street and police end up getting involved, there may be tough questions to answer.

OD

[Mac_Muz]

There is this thread in this room////
//www.city-data.com/forum/self-...own-river.html

51+ pages of info, comments and etc... It happens.

Also search a poster/user My Van, and maybe read her blogs.

Good luck, and a rough area would help, like what state you are starting in. That helps with us getting an idea about weather and so we could assist in gear.

[joe from dayton]

Originally Posted by karmadi

I'm still reading through the posts (thank you everyone that replied!) but I do want to take a quick second to comment on one.

Yes I'm 32 and female. I don't talk to my parents. I have two children, my 12 year old will be going with me, my 15 year old will be staying with a close family member. The fact that I am female has nothing to do with it, I've been married twice, I do my own repairs to my vehicles and I'm extremely street smart. I don't know if this will last 6 months or the rest of my life. I'd be starting in a conversion van and moving up to an RV eventually. I know a lot of people do this, and I'm not scared/worried..I never have been.

Well that changes everything. NO responsible parent voluntarily makes their child a destitute drifter. Leave both of your kids with a responsible adult and go out and do whatever you feel is more important than raising your kids.